May 19, 2013
MY COMMENT: I was attracted by RPK’s lastest article (May 18, 2014) on laywer Rosli Dahlan for several reasons. Foremost is that I have always believed that Rosli should take on some public role. RPK suggests that he should lead the Malaysian Civil Liberties Movement. I couldn’t agree more.
I know he is too modest to do anything for public fame. I know he does not feel that a person charged by the MACC should take on any public role. I know he has no political ambitions. But he must. It is no longer about him.
It is about the bigger cause for Malaysia. He has the knowledge, the experience and more importantly the moral compass to do the right thing. I have seen him throughout his criminal trial He was always calm, reflective, and collected with an abiding faith in justice.
I have seen him in action when he took on the mainstream media, the MACC and the Goverment in his civil suits. He won all them all. Lately, he sued A-G Gani Patail, former IGP Musa Hassan and several other big guns, calling them “Rogues in Government”.
Rosli has that quiet resolve to see things to the end. He is incorruptible. He does not crave for power nor wealth. He is not easily intimidated. In other words, he is beholden to no one except his deep personal piety to God which he does not shout about like PERKASA or ISMA.
He identifies with the common man in the street, understands their plight and fights for such causes with tenacity. That is the kind of person that the MCLM needs to lead it. And for that, I join RPK in asking Rosli that he should show his patriotism by fighting for the rights of the oppressed Malaysian.
By the way, RPK also failed to mention one important case that Rosli handles. If I am not mistaken, its the UAE Sdn Bhd vs JAIS and MAIS ( read here )where these religious authorities tried to use the Land Acquisition Act to seize a 26 acre land owned by a chinese company on the pretext of building a 26 acre mosque.
I recalled asking Rosli why he would represent a Chinese company against the State Islamic Religious Authority which wants land to build a mosque for God. His answer was a curt : “Why Not?” Then he said “You can’t use religion or God’s name to rob someone of his land. God forbid!”. There you have it.
So read on the following RPK article on the emergence of a civil rights lawyer, my friend Rosli Dahlan.–Din Merican
Rosli Dahlan: an emerging human rights and civil liberties lawyer
by Raja Petra Kamaruddin (May 18, 2014)
I would suggest that Rosli set up a special fund to fight these violation of human rights and civil liberties cases. He may be prepared to work free-of-charge for the sake of justice, human rights and civil liberties. However, I still feel a special fund should be set up.
THE CORRIDORS OF POWER
In November 2013, Rosli Dahlan filed a suit against A-G Abdul Gani Patail, former IGP Musa Hassan, and Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) Chief Abu Kassim Mohamed in their personal capacity. Rosli also named MACC prosecution head, Abdul Razak Musa, its former prosecution head, Nordin Hassan, and Razak’s deputy, Anthony Kevin Morais, the MACC, the Malaysian Police, and the Malaysian government, as among the 11 defendants.
So there you have it. Rosli is practically taking on the entire Malaysian government for his arrest and assault and the lies they spread about his so-called ‘corruption’. Now that all the lies have been proven just that, lies, he is going to nail their balls to the wall and hang them by their dicks.
Further to that, Rosli sued the government-owned mainstream newspapers — Utusan Malaysia, NST, and The Star. You can read more about that story below.
For almost seven years, Rosli has been battling the government for what they did to him. And his only ‘crime’ was that he represented the number three in the Malaysian police force against the false allegation of corruption. The government had alleged that this police officer was corrupt and had accumulated assets worth RM27 million.
The MACC, however, did not charge this Police Officer for corruption. They eventually charged him for non-declaration of assets. And it was not for RM27 million but for a much lower figure. Rosli then represented this police officer and managed to prove that the police officer had, in fact, declared his assets, contrary to what the MACC alleged.
But why were they so bent on ‘getting’ this Police Officer, even if under fabricated criminal charges if necessary? Well, the answer is very simple. This Police officer investigated the abuse of power and corruption in Malaysia’s national airlines, MAS.
This corruption went all the way to the top and involved those who walk in the corridors of power. And this resulted in MAS losing billions. And this, of course, has now been proven and even Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak said this week that the only option left for MAS is to go bankrupt.
Anyway, this Police officer then sent the previous Prime Minister a letter suggesting that these criminals be prosecuted for their wrongdoings. And this was when they decided to get him. And when Rosli acted as this police officer’s lawyer they decided to get him as well. And now they are paying for the wrath of this lawyer who will take no shit from anyone and will fight back, never mind whomsoever he has to take on and what they will do to him for being so bold as to take on the Malaysian government.
Rosli is also Kassim Ahmad’s lawyer. You can read more regarding that matter here:
Former activist Kassim Ahmad charged with insulting Islam
Dr Mahathir: Kassim Ahmad’s arrest wrongly portrays Islam as ‘hard and unmerciful’
Kassim Ahmad: The hero we don’t deserve!
Rosli is also acting for Marina Mahathir in her case against ISMA and you can read about that case here:
Marina Mahathir sues Muslim NGO over Comango allegations
Further to that, Rosli is acting for Borders regarding its conflict with the Federal Territories Religious Department (JAWI), which you can read here:
After book ban lifted, lawyer pushes to get Borders’ employee off the hook
Borders manager to face syariah charge
Court says raid on Borders bookstore, seizure of Irshad Manji’s books illegal
Yes, Rosli takes on all the cases that no other lawyer will touch with a ten-foot pole and all which involve human rights and civil liberties violations. In fact, as if this is not enough, Rosli is even taking on cases that involve legal action against UMNO Ministers and Rulers.
Because of this Rosli has received threatening phone calls from people who curse
and vilify him. They do not want him to represent people or organisations like Borders, Kassim Ahmad and Marina Mahathir who have ‘insulted’ or ‘challenged’ Islam.
What about your right to legal council and your right to a fair trial? Well, these people feel that anyone who ‘insults’ Islam should not be allowed a fair trial. Anyone who ‘insults Islam’ should just be rounded up and punished and not be allowed legal representation in a fair trial.
One such person who whacked Rosli is a very wealthy Malay who was Anwar Ibrahim’s treasurer during Anwar’s UMNO days and who made tons of money when Anwar was the Finance Minister and Deputy Prime Minister. Yes, this is a man who became a multi-millionaire by abusing his power and by exploiting his relationship with Anwar. He is angry with Rosli for giving these people a fair trial for the crime of ‘insulting Islam’.
What does ‘insulting Islam’ mean anyway? I don’t know but apparently these people do.
Anyway, these are the cases that Rosli takes on and most times pro bono as well. This means Rosli is doing all this work free-of-charge and for the sake of justice, human rights and civil liberties.
I would suggest that Rosli set up a special fund to fight these violation of human rights and civil liberties cases. He may be prepared to work free-of-charge for the sake of justice, human rights and civil liberties. However, I still feel a special fund should be set up.
It is not so much the money that is the issue. It is more that we want to demonstrate our support to the cause. We talk so much about justice, human rights and civil liberties but we never lift a finger to help. We let others do all the work while we sit comfortably in our homes and just watch and do nothing.
If we can raise RM100,000 or RM500,000 or RM1 million that would be a very strong message we send to those who hide behind Islam and deny Malaysians justice, human rights and civil liberties. Why should we allow them to decide what we can and cannot say and do or what books should be allowed and which should be banned (even if they are Malay language Bibles that use Allah)?
I also think Rosli should set up a civil liberties movement or get involved in one of the existing civil liberties movements and take on more legal cases that violate our human rights and civil liberties. It is time Malaysians fought back and not allow extremists like Perkasa, Isma, and so on, to bring Malaysia to the brink of racial and religious strife.
I, for one, promise that if Rosli takes on this challenge I will be the first to contribute some money to the fund and I will bring these cases to the international stage through organisations like the Human Rights Watch in London.
So how, Rosli, are you up to this challenge?
************************************************
(The Malaysian Insider, 18 October 2013) – The senior lawyer who won a defamation suit against an English daily and the anti-graft body said today’s court decision has vindicated him.
Rosli Dahlan, who sued the New Straits Times (NST) and the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) for defaming him in the “RM27 million Copgate Affair” in 2007, said although he was happy with the decision, he felt the defendants were not punished enough as they had shown no remorse.
“I am happy. The decision, to an extent, has vindicated me. But they should have been more severely punished as they have not shown any remorse at all,” he told The Malaysian Insider today.
“They knew my role in the case was merely as a lawyer but they still linked me to it.”
He said his win today was believed to be the first of its kind against the MACC where the anti-graft body was found liable to have defamed an individual.
This morning, the High Court in Kuala Lumpur ruled in Rosli’s favour and ordered NST and the commission to pay RM150,000 each for defaming him in the Copgate Affair which saw former Commercial Crimes Investigation Department director Datuk Ramli Yusuff being charged in court and later acquitted for failure to declare ownership of company shares and interest in two properties.
Rosli, who acted as Ramli’s lawyer, was also charged and acquitted by the Sessions Court in Kuala Lumpur in 2011 for non-disclosure of his assets, which were said to be linked to Ramli’s case.
The MACC filed an appeal against the acquittal at the High Court in Kuala Lumpur, but later withdrew it.
Rosli subsequently filed the defamation suit.
In her judgment this morning, Judicial Commissioner Siti Khadijah Badjenid said the article carried in NST was not only defamatory but also false.The sting of defamation, she said, was calculated to generate sensationalism.
While NST’s report had quoted MACC sources, the anti-graft body had denied leaking any information to the media.
But because MACC had uploaded the NST’s article on its website, the judge also found the commission liable.
“The MACC had breached Section 21(4) of the Anti-Corruption Agency Act in releasing confidential investigation to the media,” said Siti Khadijah.
“This had affected Rosli’s reputation, as he is also a lawyer from a reputed legal firm.”
She also ordered both NST and the MACC to pay RM35,000 each in costs. Rosli had earlier also slapped The Star and Utusan Malaysia with legal suits but both dailies have apologised for defaming him in 2007.
Today, he told The Malaysian Insider: “I could never understand why NST refused to apologise like Utusan and The Star. They knew the story was false.Both NST and MACC are liars. And when they were caught lying, they just blamed each other.”
Rosli was arrested in 2007 and charged in court a day before the Hari Raya celebrations while Ramli was charged a month later.
http://www.malaysia-today.net/rosli-dahlan-an-emerging-human-rights-and-civil-liberties-lawyer/
Din Merican: the Malaysian DJ Blogger 
He sounds like a real civial reights advocate of great stature.
That’s what I thought, Frankie why I commented. –Din Merican
Wow RPK is prepared to make financial contribution should Rosli decide to set up a fund to champion civil liberties cases !!! The KOPITIAM in UK must be raking in $$$$$ !! Good on you RPK !!!
——-
From RPK : It is my policy to NEVER get involved with fund raising. I will help promote it if the lawyers set up the account and appoint the trustees but I will never handle the money myself. That was how I raised money for Nurul Izzah last year for the May 2013 GE. The money went straight to her (and she won against Raja Nong Chik on top of that even though he spent mllions).
Great idea. Will chip in if there’s an account set up.
Dato, me the ignorant public doesn’t know who Rosli Dahlan is until you posted his predicament and the injustice that he had gone throught.
Sadly to read that not only the non Malays are victims of this country injustice, there are also many Malays of good calibres & characters are being victimesd, persecuted and humiliated by the so called higher authorities.
Your comments and recommendations are justly call for and this country needs more of this profound leadership to take on the injustice of the higher authority.
Let’s us all support, pray and hope that Dato Rosli will take up this responsibilities and challenges for the victimize people and country.
Well, this gentleman Rosli sounds too much of an Angel to get soiled in anything of any manner that has anything to do with politics or politicians except in purely & technically fighting for justice per se. And, he seems a ‘stubborn’ man too with a very determined mind of his own to be influenced in any way by anyone except perhaps by his own very close & beloved family members. No, don’t waste your time even if you think you know him best.
MCLM? Rosli Dahlan, a Leader?
Nah.., don’t get caught in a Straight Jacket, of Vested Interests. Especially when ‘Friends’ of dubious quality and veracity volunteer in your name.. (not meaning DDM, of course).
What we need is a Zaid Ibrahim, who has been there, seen this and that, twinkled his toes with mud on his feet – but still has the wherewithal to ‘menyalak’, without Fear nor Favor – even if he does sound a wee bit ‘Principled’ and is still ‘Moneyed’. A conveyancing legal expert is much better than civil lawyers when it comes to organizational ability. Mme Ambiga S would also be suitable.
Rosli should be the new Karpal, sans the political baggage. He’s a Court ‘personality’, not amenable to be ‘courted’. I would rather he be the next Attorney General and clean up the whore-house that is AGC..
I suppose he finds it more effective to fight the establishment alone according to his own conscience, believes and principles. Allow me to cheer him on to bring the corrupt politicians to book and lock them behind bars. As we hear so very often, our country is going to the dogs with the corrupt siphoning the country’s wealth to their safe haven, we need like him to save our beloved country. Fight on saudara Rosli. I really admire your guts and your talent.
True, a very rare breed for a ‘ Bumi ‘ lawyer who dares to be persistent in his Court briefs, unlike many other Bumis who sit in office, sign Transfer documents re ‘ the art of Conveyancing ‘ , after which sit with UMNO politicians to score short-cut ways to fame & glory……no guts.
Lawyer Rosli Dahlan exudes a ‘ pleasant ‘ disposition in Court, but with persistence, he is top in the ‘ art of persuasion’ , ever so gentle but with dogged determination , he wins the attention of the Eminence who sits in judgement to his side of the arguments…..
The only other I know is Raja Aziz Addruse ( sorry if I have mis-spelt it ) who stuck his gun all the way with The former Lord President, who until today is Venerated , equal to the Legendary Tun Ismail Ali, Tun Suffian Hashim and Tan Sri Harun Hashim…… ( very rare breed indeed ) –
But yes, hope that Rosli Dahalan would be hand-picked to Lead thhe AG’s Chambers, in the not too distant future . He deserves what he has earned.
Malaysia needs personalities like Rosli to fight the corrupt regime. This country can only be redeemed with these knowledgeable, right minded, God fearing, and principled men to stand up for the nation. I sincerely pray that he will heed the call, and help save this lovely country for the sake of his family and all Malaysian, before the corrupts swallow up this land of plenty. May the Almighty God give him wisdom to help fight the injustice.
I hope he does. There’s nothing like having first hand experience of a depraved regime to inspire one to fight for justice. He cannot do it alone and has to join up with like minded Malaysians like Ambiga and other human rights advocates. I wish him luck and God speed.
Lupus,
Huh? “Especially when ‘Friends’ of dubious quality and veracity volunteer in your name”. Don’t keep us in suspense lei, just say who……Hehehe.
Me think he can’t be AG. Not when UMNO is still in charge
I have always respected Rosli Dahlan and shed my tears when he went through all his troubles. But lead MCLM? Please don’t. Do not fall into the trap set by RPK. RPK works for the snakes out to get PR. He is not one to be trusted. Ask those back-stabbed by this ‘royalty’.
Thank you for highlighting the plight of Rosli. I have read his case on RPK but it doesn’t carry so much weight compared to your site since it is difficult to gauge RPK . Coming from you is more sincere. I know you are not the cari makan type nor having a hidden agenda from any side.
________________
Thanks for confidence. Let me say this from the outset and that is, managing other people’s money is a serious matter. We have to think carefully how to do it. The fund’s trustees must be apolitical and men of integrity. THere must also be clear guidelines about the use of the fund.–Din Merican
Din Merican,
I have left a message on your Welcome page to suggest that you do us the honour and open a Client A/C with Rosli’s firm. Because RPK is reluctant to do it himself, in RPK’s article, I nominated yourself or Sam (Harris Ibrahim). . In any case, it would be much more convenient for someone who is actually in M’sia. There is presently a lot of interest and I am certain we can raise a substantial amount towards a Justice Fund. The mount raised would be a good measurement of the rakyat’s disgust against the Establishment’s bullying tactics against Rosli.
Please do give it some thoughts.
Thank you
HT Low
__________________
I will talk and try to persuade Rosli. It should not be a political fund and must be properly managed since it will be money collected from the public.–Din Merican
Yeah, should a trust fund be set up for the expressed purpose of fighting the injustices of BN, I’ll be more than wiling to donate however small it may be. Let’s show Jibby and his band of thieves that ordinary Malaysians are no push overs.
Din,
You should consult Haris Ibrahim. He’s a better person
I agree with baski330, DO NOT fall into the trap set by RPK. He not only works for the snakes, he himself is a bigger one. RPK has stabbed many a friend in the back, those that gave him much, both morally and financially, and he is now in cahoots with those that tried to put him away, for his lifetime. He has been asked many questions, directly, as he has done to many others’, but he refuses, all he said was, “I am not obliged to answer”.
RPK is NOT to be touched with a one mile pole.
I also agree with C.L. Familiaris. Rosli is a very good lawyer, no doubt, but is he a proven leader to lead MCLM? I don’t think so.
Besides, Rosli will NOT go along with this. He will flatly refuse this. He is NOT going to go along with a situation where money is collected, in his name, presumably to pay him for his legal work, and then, Malaysians will complain about his high cost of legal representation, and this, that and the other, and thereby casting doubts on Rosli’s integrity and reputation. Any guesses who will lead these accusations? Yes, RPK himself, from behind the scenes of course.
THIS IS A TRAP SET BY RPK TO ONCE AND ALL, FINISH OFF WITH ROSLI.
Nath,
I wonder what ktemoc going to say about this. This is going to be extremely fun.
Had readers on here read the comments associated with this idea on RPK’s site, they would have known the fund is to be used for bail, court fee, disbursement, expenses, expert witness fee, etc. It is not intended for payment to Rosli for his services. (He is willing to work pro bono.) Funds collected will be left in a trust fund in a Client Account with a solicitor’s firm. There are rules governing the control & usage of these fund. It is likely to be managed by a committee (or a panel)
As to your opinion of RPK, I think it is out-of-topic – that is all I want to say.
HT,
Unfortunately the perception of RPK is pretty bad to some. I strongly suggest leave to Haris Ibrahim. Ask Pak Bean what’s his opinion on RPK. Even Hisham Rais cast aspersion on this man. It’s too bad that RPK’s legacy has been tarnished forever
Well, anyOne is entitled to donate, to causes they deem worthy.
It’s the Cause that needs clarification. Relevance is important, and so are the Initiators.
Any Lawyer worth his salt or has his integrity+cojones intact, will take up the Cause Pro-Bono, without any hesitation. Another NGO? What for?
Which begs the question – why Rosli? He has been and is still up to his neck fighting the System. What Relief does this extra burden give him?
Why not someone else who has time, money and has insight to the Establishment Goons? Why not ex-AG, TS Abu Talib, for instance?
Look, it’s not about Celebrity, Glitter nor Glamour – it’s about the Terrible State of Whoredom, that Boleh-Landers face day in, day out.!
HT Low, No Sir, you are incorrect.
The idea of collecting money, was to pay for Rosli, why should the public pay for bail, court fee, disbursement, expenses, expert witness fee, etc, for someone who has gotten himself in trouble, notwithstanding the fact that he may have acted in the public interests. If this is so, please clarify, then, I MAY want to commit a few “public interests” misdemeanors, and would want Rosli to defend me, with this money collected from the public.
Believe me, I can actually think of several.I am sure that, you, now, think this idea to be preposterous.
How could my opinion of RPK be out of topic, IF this very topic and thread is about the suggestion, that RPK made?
I commented on RPK’s intention, not of someone else, and his intention, in my opinion, is one rooted in bad faith. If you can defend or rebut that, please do, I would like to hear it.
Do you know RPK personally? I do. I know his stories of “long Fu Thong, and gangs 36, and 18, of the Malaysia Restaurant opposite Rex Theatre, etc, etc” and his involvement or his personal knowledge of them, are creations of, and in his own mind, well, they are fabrications.
I supported RPK in his court battles, I know many, and of many, people who did the same, financially, and morally, and he has thumbed his nose at 90% of us/them. We just let him be, MAINLY because of Marina, and don’t talk ill of him. But, that doesn’t mean, we don’t know of, and about him.
We just hope he will care for Marina in her sickness.
As far as using Harris is concerned, to administer the monies collected, well, that is putting the cart before the horse, SPEAK TO ROSLI FIRST.
We still don’t know if Rosli will agree to RPK’s idea, and I still think he won’t, indeed I hope he doesn’t. Imagine someone who has donated RM100, making crude remarks and pronouncing judgements on Rosli.
And of course you would want Rosli to work pro bono, FOR ALL CASES, or even for some of them, in other words, you want Rosli to do charity work, presumably because you are backed by these “public money”? Do you even know what pro bono means?
“pro bono – done for the public good without compensation unpaid – not paid; “unpaid wages”; “an unpaid bill” That is according to Thesaurus.
You want to collect money, go right ahead, but IF you want to do it, using me as an excuse, and BECAUSE you want to pay me, or pay bail, court fee, disbursement, expenses, expert witness fee, etc, for cases that I am involved in, well, I am opening myself to extreme abuse, and if I were Rosli, I would not go along with it.
But, Rosli is welcome to go for it. he is after all not me.
looes74, I have an opinion and view, and I expressed it here, there is a reason why I chose Dato’s Din’s blog. Do you think that I actually care what ktemoc thinks? I have crossed swords with ktemoc before, on his blog, and he just brushed my views as an extrapolation, and went about his rambling, without addressing my queries. Such people are no fun debating with.
Anyway, I am here, and I am ready to defend my stance and opinions, and I think, Dato Din’s blog is the best forum.
agere sequitur credere
Nath,
Wah! Kaytee’s notoriety has preceded himself. Hahaha! I have been dying to see a celebrity death match between lupus (who sometimes call himself a border collie) and kaytee. Hahahaha! Anyway, it’s a rhetorical question that may not require your response but in any case, it’s ok la! I have done even worse and I have to admit he’s been very kind just as Mohd Raffick does with my sometimes rather provocative commentaries. Balasi can testify to that.
I understand that he can be very opiniated fellow (most atheist are anyway and hence in need of salvation. The Lupus can quote some NIV quotes to him) especially he loves to use the word “Myrmidons” in describing those who are extremely very supportive of Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim. That includes his alter ego called CL Flamiaris whom I nicknamed him “The Lupus” (It’s a compliment actually because they are ferocious animals that bites. Beware!)
Well said, SS Nath. Unlike you, i don’t know that flur personally, never commented on his blog – but Marina’s uncle is one of my ‘clients’. Even he has nothing good to say.
Yup, the Loong-Fu-Tong (21) thingy by that fella was like a Camel farting. Certainly, there was no Malaysia restaurant opposite Rex – but we congregated at both corner kopitiam. That was a long, long time ago, but i believe the ‘boys’ are still using the same hand signals?
Lupus,
What a waste! Hence the saying, east is east and west is west………..Hehehehe! There goes my popcorns entertainment.
SS Nath, you wrote a long reply in response to my comment and certainly deserve a reply.
“The idea of collecting money, was to pay for Rosli, …”
This is not true. When I suggested “.. Rosli Dahlan may not be the right person to actually set up the fund – there may be a conflict of interest (someone might accuse him of setting up a fund for his own financial gain.)” [May 18 at 10:29am], RPK’s reply was “HT Low, his firm can set up a Client’s Account, which will be managed by other lawyers in the firm. Then we set the parameters for how the money is supposed to be used. For example, bail, filing fees, etc., but not to pay the lawyer’s fees and not for his own cases but only for clients of the firm. That would be management of the money and is why I do not want to handle the money. [May 18 at 10:32am] That was why I suggested readers read the comments posted in RPK’s article.
“…How could my opinion of RPK be out of topic”
It is out of topic because RPK is not the subject of the argument; the Justice Fund is. We are discussing the idea of a Justice Fund to help those attacked/vilified by the Establisment as Rosli has been.
“…I commented on RPK’s intention, … in my opinion, is one rooted in bad faith. ”
I cannot fathom this out at all as there is no possible way RPK can financially benefit from this. Indeed, he has stated he would be one of the 1st to contribute.
“..Do you know RPK personally?”
It depends what you mean. I only got to know of Malaysia Today a few years ago and have read many of his articles. I have listened to his lectures both in Cambridge & London as well as having dinners with Marina and RPK. Do I know him personally? I suppose not.
“…you would want Rosli to work pro bono”
That is up to Rosli. As to your comment “. Do you even know what pro bono means?”, I prefer to think you were rather emotional when you wrote that and you might not have written it under normal circumstances.
I think what I wrote above have also addressed the other issues raised in your reply.
HT Low, you are interpreting statements, to suit your feeble arguments, and not for what they really are.
Read this statement in it’s entire context:
Quote:
“HT Low, his firm can set up a Client’s Account, which will be managed by other lawyers in the firm. Then we set the parameters for how the money is supposed to be used. For example, bail, filing fees, etc., but not to pay the lawyer’s fees and not for his own cases but only for clients of the firm.
Unquote.
1) Who is the “we”, that sets these parameters, RPK will be involved I am sure.
2) Money is collected, deposited in a Client’s Account, administered, or if you prefer the word, “managed”, by “other lawyers’ in the firm”. And those that manage this account are accountable to whom?
Besides, Rosli is the senior partner in the firm. And this is RPK’s suggestion, and in in your opinion, it is an excellent suggestion, and must be followed, without any kind of perusal right? If there are, I have not heard it from you. Why, presumably because RPK whom you met only recently said so.
3) Public money is collected, deposited in a law firm’s account, for the firm’s exclusive use, will the Bar Council approve this? Will other lawyers not protest? If yes, are you sure?
I will not say this, if I have not spoken to some senior lawyers.
4) So public money is collected, the law firm is flush with cash, and “clients” will go to the firm, and you think other lawyers in other law firms are going to sit around and do nothing?
5) “not to pay the lawyer’s fees and not for his own cases but only for clients of the firm”. Isn’t that statement itself, a contradiction in itself, leaving aside all else?
I could go on, but I am sure you get the point.
And after all these, if you still think that there is no conflict, then, no amount of arguments that will convince you of otherwise. Only the actual execution of the suggestion, and waiting for the consequences will we know. It might be too late of course, but some people will prefer to see something implemented, and failed, and then run away with their tails behind their backs. They deem it unnecessary to consider all opinions first. And I guess, you say yes, because it came from your newly met hero, RPK.
“…How could my opinion of RPK be out of topic”
It is out of topic because RPK is not the subject of the argument; the Justice Fund is. We are discussing the idea of a Justice Fund to help those attacked/vilified by the Establisment as Rosli has been.
I commented on both the idea, and of RPK, the originator of the idea. I voiced my doubts on the possible successful implementation of the idea, I note that you have not commented on these, however, you take me to task for casting doubts on the person whose idea it is, very telling indeed.
“…I commented on RPK’s intention, … in my opinion, is one rooted in bad faith. ”
I cannot fathom this out at all as there is no possible way RPK can financially benefit from this. Indeed, he has stated he would be one of the 1st to contribute.
Did I say that RPK will “financially benefit” from this? You are putting words into my mouth. RPK will donate a few hundred Pounds Sterling, which will be paid by the people behind him anyway, not him, to see something fail, and then ensure that Rosli is seen in bad light, and RPK will collect his reward. DO NOT think of the reward in financial terms. Think about it HT Low. Think RPK, think where his now, how he got there, and you may have a rough guess, finance, is not the only reward.
“..Do you know RPK personally?”
It depends what you mean. I only got to know of Malaysia Today a few years ago and have read many of his articles. I have listened to his lectures both in Cambridge & London as well as having dinners with Marina and RPK. Do I know him personally? I suppose not.
I know RPK very well, from the 70’s in fact. My brother went to the Victoria Institution with him. And I have been around in those places that RPK mentioned, only about a million times in his articles, yes, that is how long I have known him. He stands out, because of his origin, not because of the stories that he has written, about his bravery, etc. You know the RPK in the UK ONLY, and you think you are fit to defend him, or his ideas? Gosh HT Low!!!
I believe you may NOT have read this thread entirely, otherwise you may have read what C.L. Familiaris had to say about RPK.
Quote:
Yup, the Loong-Fu-Tong (21) thingy by that fella was like a Camel farting. Certainly, there was no Malaysia restaurant opposite Rex – but we congregated at both corner kopitiam.
You want to debate about RPK, I really don’t think so, but if you do, let me know, but it is not fair to use this forum, Dato Din has been kind enough to allow a better flow of debates than Malaysia Today, AND he does not interfere, and I shall not take advantage of his kindness. Personal discussions must be between us,
But honestly, to me, RPK is not worth it, however it is ok if you want to worship him, that is your, I believe, uninformed choice.
“…you would want Rosli to work pro bono”
That is up to Rosli. As to your comment “. Do you even know what pro bono means?”, I prefer to think you were rather emotional when you wrote that and you might not have written it under normal circumstances.
Well, we shall have to wait for Rosli to answer IF he will play along, won’t we? No Sir, I WAS NOT emotional when I mentioned Pro Bono, I was making sure you do understand the meaning of the word, in it’s entirety, it’s implications, and what it means to lawyers’. I am not convinced that you, even now, do.
Finally, bear in mind, that Rosli has been a lawyer for umpteen years, long before RPK came to the public domain, as our “self appointed and self confessed saviour”, and he has had held his principles far longer than RPK has had this “public image” of his. That much is sure.
Why then, didn’t RPK chose Rosli as his lawyer then, or to put it another way, why hasn’t Rosli been RPK’s lawyer? Perhaps, there are are legitimate reasonable reasons for this, and this, I am asking, rather than making an informed judgement.
Again, why Rosli?
One can’t deny and notice that Rosli has been in the limelight recently, and seems to be winning “his legal battles”, and this irks RPK and his benefactors? And they have “instructed RPK to get rid of him”, is that the reason?
Why not Malik Imtiar Sarwar? He is an excellent, and exceptional lawyer, I would say. He takes on ‘public interest” cases too. And he has principles, just as Rosli has.
Or why not talk to Harris Ibrahim, another excellent choice, and convince him to come out of retirement to practice law again?
I am sure there are dozens of others, why hasn’t RPK suggested them, HIS OWN lawyers included.
Sir, you MUST read the thread from the beginning, otherwise you be left embarrassed. This is what C.L. Familiaris commented:
Quote:
Which begs the question – why Rosli? He has been and is still up to his neck fighting the System. What Relief does this extra burden give him?
Why not someone else who has time, money and has insight to the Establishment Goons? Why not ex-AG, TS Abu Talib, for instance?
Unquote.
And to quote baski330:
I have always respected Rosli Dahlan and shed my tears when he went through all his troubles. But lead MCLM? Please don’t. Do not fall into the trap set by RPK. RPK works for the snakes out to get PR. He is not one to be trusted. Ask those back-stabbed by this ‘royalty’.
Unquote.
I think what I wrote above have also addressed the other issues raised in your reply.
With all due respect Sir, I do not think so.
agere sequitur credere
Aaargh……It boils to perception on RPK. As far as some including Nath and I are concerned, RPK is as good as damaged. Too bad, HT Low.
SS Nath, thank you for the trouble in writing such a long reply. I will attempt to address each of your points.
1) “We” is meant to be a panel whose members are yet to be decided upon. (I presume nominations will be accepted from the rakyat.) It may or may not involved solicitors within or without Rosli’s firm. If RPK is involved (he proposed to widen the rally call with Human Rights Watch in UK), he has only 1 voice.
2) The money is deposited in a Client A/C. As I am sure you are aware, the usage of funds from a Client A/C is very strictly governed by the Law Society. Sure, there are rogue solicitors who would dip into their clients’ account but then there are always bad apples in every barrel. Do you think Rosli, with his reputation, would allow anything to happen especially if it is in a Client A/C within his firm?
3) “..for the firm’s exclusive use..”. It was never intended for Rosli’s firm exclusive use. It is for use for any person who is being ‘bullied’ by the Establishment. I do not know the Bar Council’s view on this but they are, of course, welcome to have their say.
4) “So public money is collected, the law firm is flush with cash…” The money does not belong to the firm; it is only held in trust on behalf of the rakyat by the firm. Other firms’ clients are, of course, entitled to call on the fund. That is why there is a need of a panel.
5) “not to pay the lawyer’s fees …but only for clients of the firm” As I said, it is for disbursements of the clients rather than for the client themselves. Sure, we have not dotted the i’s & crossed the t’s exactly the rules governing its usage but these can be sorted out to the satisfaction of all.
I am not hero worshipping RPK. I just thought the challenge he gave to Rosli was a good idea. I confessed I did not know RPK when he was in VI – I left in 1966 (I believe he is 2 years my junior in term of Form) Like I said, I only got to know MT when I got interested in M’sia politics after an argument with some Nigerian friends over which country was more corrupt. As to his history within M’sian political scenes, I have to confess I am a virgin.
Thanks for the exchange and (like you said) we should not abuse Din Merican’s generosity & overstay his welcome.
Good afternoon HT Low.
I do not plan to rebut you point to point, as it has proven to be an exercise in futility, you seem to cherry pick only those that you have ready made answers for. I still submit that you have not applied your mind, which I think is naive, to my questions in their totality.
Also you seem to answer to mechanisms that you DO NOT have control or say. Sure, the “we” are yet to be decided upon, as is the structure of the “Justice Fund”, hence, all these are early days yet.
If nominations are accepted from the rakyat, even if one requires “qualified rakyat”, and assuming 20000 people write in, the process itself took years to see fruition. Anyway, I am aware that, that was only your suggestion.
That is just one of the many examples that you, or others have not thought it through properly.
First, speak to Rosli, and IF he agrees, I still hope he doesn’t, though I admit it is possible he might, then speak to the Bar Council, look into the legality of it, the exccution of it, etc etc etc.
Then, the rest can follow.
Sir, RPK made the suggestion a few days ago, and you may have noticed that NO ONE, not even on his blog seem excited about it, or have said anything about it, at least not publicly. RPK speaking to the Human Rights Watch, in the UK, hmmmmmm, I think you are getting carried away, and you accord this person too much respect, but, that is however your privilege to do so, it is obvious you have been taken over by his “sweet talk”, during your dinner with him and Marina. However, do not expect all of whom know him, to take this as easily as you do. I know lots of his long time personal friends, me included, who have travelled to the UK, when RPK was speaking, but preferred not to go say even a hello to him. Most of us, just tolerate him, because of Marina, as she is a gem of a woman, a real angel really. She has devoted her life, from her teens, till now. Well, we know opposites attract anyway.
The only person who has publicly said he WILL get involved is Dato Din, God Bless his heart, as Dato Din, feels passionately about Rosli’s principles, his lone fight with the regulating authorities, the Govt, etc. Whilst most just talk about it, Dato Din, personally attends Rosli’s court cases, and makes sure we, the public know of, and about it, because mainstream media just doesn’t talk about their loosing the cases that Rosli brought on them.
HT Low, do go ahead and continue your comments on this issue, here, on this thread, and I will respond, however, try not to answer anything, if you are not sure.
Thank you ever so much, for being very civil, I salute you for that. Civilityis one thing you will find on Dato Din’s blog. Dato Din has been known to moderate his blog with wisdom, but if required, he has, though rarely, diplomatically intervened to bring his commentators on the proper track.
Dato Din, I, and I am lots of your readers, and commentators, wish you, as I do now, A VERY HAPPY 75TH BIRTHDAY. I wish you happiness in your life, peace in your mind, love in your heart and all things that money cannot buy.
May the Almighty Bless you beyond measure.
Again it has something to do with perception on RPK and his credibility. Too bad, it’s a damaged good. Plus, RPK’s intention of promotion the so called regality is getting no where. To end this, I summon Dennis the constitutionalist.
Lib Dem has reneged their promises on the abolition of tuition fee. Hence, I would still remain a Labour supporter. Michael Foot has made a comment on magicians. That includes RPK himself
RPK should have know the gang of four betrayed Labour by splitting the party to form SDP. SDP made an alliance with Liberal Party in which both parties has amalgated to become Lib Dem. Maggie had something to say about that party
Goog Morning SS Nath (still morning in UK),
I thank you for your response. Obviously, I do not have as much a history with RPK as you do. I will certainly take on all that you have written for future reference. I am still very keen on the idea of establishing a Justice Fund. The amount collected would surely be a good measure of the rakyat’s anger with the bully boy tactics of the Establishment. Let’s wait for Din’s contact with Rosli. If Rosli is not keen, I am sure Sam (Harris Ibrahim whom I have suggested as a likely candidate as well) might take up the challenge.
Thank you very much for the exchange and I do value your input.
Din, Happy Birthday to you! (hope it is not too late).