July 14,2012
Need for Critical Calm Discourse on Islamic Ethics
by Dr Ahmad Farouk Musa*
“Principles can be immutable, absolute, and eternal, but their implementations in time or in history–historical models–are relative, changing and in constant mutation. Thus, the principles of justice, equality, rights and human brotherhood that guided the Prophet of Islam indeed remain the references beyond history, but the model of the city of Medina founded by Muhammad in the seventh century is a historical realization linked to the realities and requirements of his time.
Muslims must, in the course of history,try to remain faithful to those principles and strive to implement them as best they can according to the requirements of their time but they cannot merely imitate, reproduce, or duplicate a historical model that was adapted for a particular time but no longer corresponds to the requirements of their own.”-Tariq Ramadan in Radical Reform: Islamic Ethics and Liberation, p.19
While the world continues to evolve, we are witnessing one of the most important developments in the Muslim world. The rise of AKP in Turkey, the en-Nahdah or Renaissance Party in Tunisia, the Freedom and Justice Party in Egypt and al-Adl wal-Ihsan in Morocco are basically the re-emergence of Islamism with a new face and a new spirit.
It would not be a gross exaggeration to portray it as a re-emergence of the rationalist school of thought – or known previously as the mu’tazilites – in the Islamic world. As the rationalists believed that one of God’s crucial attributes is justice, hence man must have free will. Man must utilize his God-given faculty of reason to decipher between right and wrong and to establish justice.
And since God is absolutely just, He would not reward or punish his creatures 
without reason. Human would receive reward in heaven or punishment in hell as a result of their free choice. Anyone who believes in a just God had to accept that man is the creator of his deeds.
The rationalism of the Mu’tazilites led them to conclude that God, and thus, His universe, operated according to rational laws, a premise that called on scientific inquiry. From this, emerged the scientific boom of the Medieval Islamic world, the zenith was the establishment of Bait al-Hikmah or House of Wisdom.
Another important theological basis for the Mu’tazilites was that the Qur’an was created which lead to the interpretative conclusion that the Qur’an can be “interpreted” and NOT merely “implemented” or “applied”.
This literal translation of the Qur’an is mainly the basis for the current predominantly literalist or Salafist trend in the Muslim world. Because of this literalist trend, many Muslims are trapped in the Medinan State concept or as what was mentioned by the esteemed Prof Tariq Ramadan in his book Radical Reform, obsession with models rather than principles.
Basically Muslims require thinking, and rethinking again about this important agenda. Man must be able to exercise God given rational faculty in order to face the challenges of modernity. And this forms the basis of reform that we aspire to.
“I desire nothing but reform (al-Islah) as far as I am able. There is no guidance for me except from Allah” [Surah Hūd 11: 88]
*Dr Ahmad Farouk Musa is Chairman and Director,Islamic Renaissance Front (IRF). This is the text of his Speech during Tariq Ramadan Hi-Tea Event “Rethinking Islamic Reform” at the Renaissance Hotel, Kuala Lumpur on July 14, 2012.
Din Merican: the Malaysian DJ Blogger 
“Critical, calm discourse…” and in a previous piece it talks about intellectual laziness. The two are directly connected.
The only way to have calm criticism is to keep religion out of our lives and let each of us have the faith we are comfortable with. This is not possible anymore because traditionalists have been allowed to take the centre-stage of our religion. So expect more of the same… Muslims butchering each other while proclaiming the oneness of mankind and the brotherhood in Islam.
Pessimistic, but regrettably true.
” …..and let each of us have the faith we are comfortable with…” Isa Manteqi. Yes, why not ? According to each his own and unto each his due, that’s what is in the revelation : Unto you your religion, unto me. mine. There is no compulsion in religion….
This polemics about mine, not yours is the Correct religion, is the assertion of every Faith. i respect Sai Baba too, when he says : ” That which suits your own experience/s in life, that is the ” right” religion for you…”
Even within Islam, there is so much polemics….and so, even resort to killing one another….why is that ? Insanity or no understanding, or perhaps of Mis-interpretations ? Otherwise political madness, and hallucination a getting into Militancy…. ?
No i do have a ‘thesis’ of sorts on just ” Interpretations” but not appropriate here, perhaps if ‘relevant’ any time, i might….for muslims do not be rattled by what i speak of Sai Baba…
CALM. The operative word here.
When was the last time the moslem world was CALM?
Any decent and God-fearing Muslim wanting to live a peaceful and harmonious life in a world that is becoming more atheistic should be a member of the Islamic Renaissance Front (IRF).
I am a big fan of Dr. Ahmad Farouk Musa. When he talks about Islam, he showed he has his head properly screwed between his two shoulders and he demonstrated he has many more grey matter between his ears than those loudmouth half-baked muftis and those half-intelligent officials in JAKIM.
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Frank,
Knowledge about truth in Islam and the Quran is no longer the monopoly of the so-called Ulema. Ordinary Muslims are now able to understand their religion. Let this democratisation will continue for the good of humanity.
A Muslim’s relationship to God is a direct one, not through mullahs and JAIS, JAWI or JAKIM, and we don’t need this Ulema group to tell us what we should do. Muslims should read the Quran and understand its eternal message that there is no God but God.So learn to lead a simple and virtuous life.–Din Merican
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Islam would be better placed in 21st century with the likes of him around than the Muslim world trying to have millions of mosques built with tunnel visioned and small minded muftis and muslim preachers standing at the pulpit mouthing religious bigotry every Friday.
With all the negative perceptions of Islam spreading around the globe, the views of the Islamic Renaissance Front is a breath of very fresh air, for muslims and non muslims alike.
Bravo, Dr Ahmad Farouk Musa. Kick more asses of those bigoted muslim preachers and those half baked so called muslim scholars in the country who still think “Allah” is a personal name of the desert God of the semitic tribes of the Middle East and that Christians cannot call their God as “Allah” too.
The only way to have calm criticism is to keep religion out of our lives – Isa Manteqi
Not good enough. Start with keeping religion out of the children until such time they can fully understand the meaning of universal human values and the commonalities each religion has with other religions.
The trouble is little kids who are little more than 3 years are started to be brainwashed with their parent’s religion and being introduced to the nearest church/temple/mosque with all the bigotry entrenched in their parent’s religion.
If that is bad enough, the parents then send their 6-7 year olds to religious classes to memorise and chant some religious texts in a language totally alien to them, long before they could even master their own mother tongue. And for some, little kids are brainwashed in Sunday school classes and taught songs about what a good friend they have in that unseen and Imaginary Chap in the Sky and given coloring books to color their Imaginary Protector in the Sky. The little kids being asked to say thank you before they go to bed, not to their parents, but to some Imaginary Friend in the Sky for all the good things they had during the day. No wonder some of these kids grow up with psychological problems when they grow up.
For some, little kids are asked to prostate themselves like slaves to some bald men in yellow robes.
I feel sorry for these innocent kids. Their parents have very corrupting influence on then through enforced BRAINWASHING of them by the time they are 3-4 years old…. Not teaching the little ones about making choices in life or giving their little ones exposure about other religions and the wider world…instead of tunneling their innocent minds with a warped, myopic and one sided view of the world and of wider humanity based on their parent’s religion.
Until someone knows how much untold misery inflicted on humans of unequal opportunities where amongst others 250,000 children under the age of 5 die every 10 days, the size of the Asian tsunami there is no place for religion and shouldn’t be at all. Act as normal decent thinking human first.
can we be a member of IRF from far far away? I bet Jakim dont like them much.
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Kathy, why not? IRF blog/website is on my blogroll prominently displayed. Click it and you can read all their postings.–Din Merican
For the ‘lazy masses’, it would certainly be easier to follow the Literal Salafists, than the Reasoned Mutazalites. Energy conservation and the avoidance of ‘critical thinking’ required when starvation of the intellect is nigh. Freewill and Fear of Chaos is not an option.
It is not by ‘accident’ that the Salafists win by default, for Man is inherently drawn to Literal solidity instead of Allegorical possibilities. Ineducable people are drawn to systems and methods, where there is imposed Order – even if that very order stultifies imagination, innovation and intelligence. That’s the essential difference between a passive fatalist, and an active-seeker positivist. Progressives lose their way whenever the ‘shit hits the fan’. Tell me ain’t so.
So you’re Mutazalite Zen Master, Frank? Impossible.
I thought an atheist like Frank don’t give a damn about what any religion is all about?…I hope I’m wrong. Anyway Frank, the Friday sermon is a reminder to Moslems not to deviate from the true teaching of Islam. It’s wrong for yo to say they’re only mouthing bigotry every week…
Religion must cease to be a tool in the political tool box of not only UMNO but also PKR and PAS. How do we do that?? The only way to do that is to return to the pre-1969 position if that is possible, when our government appeared to have the right balance between the secular and the religious in matters of state. That is never going to happen in Dato’s generation, the generation of old geezers on this blog nor the next – and the next.
You guys want to play Russian roulette with your Glock, go ahead. But contributory negligence is no defense to a charge of murder.
all of you are right, it is a promisimg sign that finally many muslims realise the neccessity for reform. this give a chance for all those moderate and broadminded muslims who have been living two lifes, one for their friends and colleagues and one for the religious community,
would we see a Martin Luther emerging for the muslim world soon?
in malaysia, for starters we could banish religion from the countries politics and administration. the people should practise their religion as they wish. I’m only dreaming la!
I thought an atheist like Frank don’t give a damn about what any religion is all about?…I hope I’m wrong. Anyway Frank, the Friday sermon is a reminder to Moslems not to deviate from the true teaching of Islam. It’s wrong for yo to say they’re only mouthing bigotry every week…-barry
1) Who says I am an atheist? I have not said that. How do you know I am not a muslim or a Hindu? Don’t jump to conclusions too quickly or you will in the ditch with your head first.
2) The Friday sermon is SUPPOSED to remind Muslims not to deviate. But It has been used to politicise issues which went against the teachings of Islam. Well, if you have not lived in Malaysia or not aware what is going on in some of the mosques in Malaysia run by UMNO hackeys, then you don’t know what you are saying.
3) I said ” mosques built with tunnel visioned and small minded muftis and muslim preachers.” In fact, I should have added “mosques with muftis who are political animals instead of being truly religious preachers.”
can we be a member of IRF from far far away?- Kathy
Of course, they will love to have you and possibly start a chapter down in Oz because I understand there are quite a number of migrant parochial right wing muslim preachers in Australia who came from Pakistan especially poisoning many young minds.
You can contact them below or write to them directly at this website:http://www.irfront.org/contact/
Level 8, Pavilion KL,
168 Jalan Bukit Bintang,
55100 Kuala Lumpur,
Wilayah Persekutuan Malaysia.
E-mail: info@irfront.org
Phone: +603-9205-7733
Fax: +603-9205-7788
Religion must cease to be a tool in the political tool box of not only UMNO but also PKR and PAS. How do we do that??- Mr Bean
Easy. Put in the Constitution to ban all religions in Malaysia. Or abolish the ISA and replace it with National Religious Harmony Act instead. This is a better alternative than that funny sounding name National Harmony Act.
The only national harmony you can get in Malaysia is the one produced by the RTM Orchestra.
… and one suggestion to Najib if religions cannot be banned is to include in the National Religious Harmony Act is to have all current public holidays for Wesak Day, Hari Raya Haji, Awal Muharram, Christmas, Deepavali and Thaipusam and what have you, revoked and they are to celebrated on ONE SAME DAY. and call it National Religious Holiday.
Anybody celebrating their religious holidays on other days should be jailed for breaking the law under the new National Religious Harmoney Act.
Nothing can be more harmonious than to get all the religious believers and bigots to celebrate whatever their religion on the same day.
If Najib can do that, we should all vote for UMNO-BN to win in the next GE with two thirds majority.
“… there is no God but God” – Dato Din
..there is No God but God ????
Dato Din, come again, please!
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That is my belief. I should have used the word Allah. Respect it as it is my belief as I respect your position on religion. Only then there will be peace.–Din Merican
Reeper…Many Moslems believed Imam Mahdi will emerge sooner than expected to save this world…of course not the self-proclaimed and often at a wrong time and place for the wrong reason…!!
“..Knowledge about truth in Islam and the Quran is no longer the monopoly of the so-called Ulema. Ordinary Muslims are now able to understand their religion. ..A Muslim’s relationship to God is a direct one, not through mullahs and JAIS, JAWI or JAKIM, and we don’t need this Ulema group to tell us what we should do.” Dato Din
I want to believe you, Dato. I really do. Unfortunately, It is an idealistic view but may not be a realistic one in the real world.
This is because the fact remains, and in reality , is that parents are still sending their kids to be taught Islam from the Ulemas. Wiorse still, they are sent as young as 6-7 years old. You see that in schools and in muslim communities /ummah.
Because Islam is a religion that emphasises on the community ie ummah much greater rather than the individual, the role of ulema is more significant or rather the ulema will form an institution to enhance their power and influence on the ummah. They will interpret and dictate what the ummah is allowed to do, think or behave.
The foundation of all religions, not just Islam, even up to this day revolves around religious preachers and bound by a religious bureaucracy.
Parents and adults are still looking to religious preachers to confirm their faith. That is the downside with institutionalised religions.
I should have used the word Allah. Respect it as it is my belief as I respect your position on religion. .–Din Merican
Don’t get me wrong. It was not a disrespect of your belief.
I was confused by that statement as being internally contradicting.
I thought the phrasing should have been , ” there is no other gods, except God, we call Allah swt”.
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It is God of the Muslims and also of the Christians and the Jews (Peoples of the Book–Ahlil Kitab) as mentioned in the Quran. In my prayers, I say there is no God but God (Allah) to renew my faith.
Peoples of the Book (Arabic: أهل الكتاب ′Ahl al-Kitāb) is a term used to designate non-Muslim adherents to faiths which have a revealed scripture called, in Arabic, Ahl-Al-Kitab (Arabic: الكتاب “the people of the Book” or “people of the Scripture”). The three types of adherents to faiths that the Qur’an mentions as peoples of the book are the Jews, Sabians and Christians.
In Islam, the Muslim scripture, the Qur’an, is taken to represent the completion of these scriptures, and to synthesize them as God’s true, final, and eternal message to humanity. Because the Peoples of the Book recognize the God of Abraham as the one and only god, as do Muslims, and they practice revealed faiths based on divine ordinances, tolerance and autonomy is accorded to them in societies governed by sharia (Islamic divine law).
In Judaism the term “Peoples of the Book” (Hebrew: עם הספר, Am HaSefer) was used to refer specifically to the Jewish people and the Torah, and to the Jewish people and the wider canon of written Jewish law (including the Mishnah and the Talmud). Adherents of other Abrahamic religions, which arose later than Judaism, were not added. As such, the appellation is accepted by Jews as a reference to an identity rooted fundamentally in Torah.
In Christianity, the Catholic Church rejects the similar expression “religion of the book” as a description of the Christian faith, preferring the term “religion of the Word of God.” Nevertheless, other denominations, such as the Baptists, Methodists, Seventh-day Adventist Church as well as Puritans and Shakers, have embraced the term “Peoples of the Book”–Wikipedia
–Din Merican
So you’re Mutazalite Zen Master, Frank? -C.L. Familiaris
No, my friend.
Never heard of the term “Mutazalite’.. I thought it was some rare gemstones like “Malachite” or “Sodalite”
Zen Master?? No, I would like to be a ” Sen (and Ringgit ) Master.”
Many Moslems believed Imam Mahdi will emerge sooner than expected to save this world… -barry
More importantly, barry, you need to find out what the AL-QURAN says who will return to earth on the Day of Judgement?
Haha.. steady, Frank.
All that eschatology (end of days) stuff is gonna cause severe indigestion. Yeah, you’ll do well a rationalist Mutazili without the necessary ‘Leap of Faith’.
Kat, mystics and rationalists don’t blend well – comes out smelling like a turd burger. Literalists are even worse – they are inorganic toxic waste products.
http://www.cssforum.com.pk/css-optional-subjects/group-g/philosophy/3640-free-thought-key-progress.html
the above is what I found on Mutazalites.
equally interesting would be the following for all of who are still undecided about God and Gods power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism
atheists: a name given by the ‘believers’ to those who don’t make a brimborion out of the simple act of praying to God. a rose by any other name….and as the romans say ‘all roads lead to Rome’ does it really matter which God you pray?
the Hindus have ~250 deities to look after them, shouldn’t we say that they are better protected than those with only one God? what about the other thousands of natural religions in this world…they also believe in God and pray with the same or probably more indulgence and vehemence than you Moslems and Christians..shouldn’t we accept them also as God fearing people? rationally there can only be one almighty God.
Barry…..sad to tell you, God only helps those who help themselves. God gave us life and a planet to live in and told us to bugger off and live our lives and not bother him unneccessarily!
we shouldn’t wait for him to come. take things in our own hands and do the right thing. where there is a will there’s a way.
Dato’, thank you for that. I will join them. It is a great Era in islam we herald now. The Era of thinking and applying our reasoning powers simultaneously applying our compassion too.
Barry, you have read frank wrongly. he challenges, do not ever take anyone literally. Always read in between the lines.
Yes CLF, this is what the Islamic world needs. Other Moslems to take on the hard liners and change it all. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)took on the hard liner Arabs, his own kind. They killed their infant female, they were lawless and worshipped Idols. He took them on, his own kind. They wanted to kill him and plotted. The Meccans when defeated by the our beloved Propeht was waiting for their slaughter because thats the way they are , violent people with no mercy. But the Prophet showed mercy,spared them and allowed them to live and trade and they embraced this faith of mercy and compassion. He showed them another way is possible. That is the ingredient of Justice, reasoning, mercy and compassion. So we who claim to follow the Koran must take on the hard liners. it is our duty and responsibility to do so.
Thanks Dato’ & frank for that. i will definitely become a member. Kick some assess. Jakim you ready?
frank the reason the Islam is being indoctrinated only that it is about the Ummah is SO that they can control the minds of the people. Actually the miracle of the Koran is this. There are no intercessors needed. The relationship is direct if you wish it to be so. Thats what may seem intangible but through perseverence and asking and seeking, the experience becomes tangible. That is the miracle. So becasue the hard liners do not want this free will being exercised by individuals they say it is haram, that is haram . But nay, the miralce of the Koran is to move away from intercessors. This is why in another thread some one commented that the indoctrination is ‘you cannot learn by yourself it is haram”. Of course it is good to find a teacher but individual experiences are not haram. Seek knowledge, Read is the command. That implies and entails whatever way you deemd fit for your individual self. Thats is why the command ” No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another” You choose your path and you are responsible for it and you have to answer for it and NO ONE ELSE. It cannot get any clearer than that, can it? That we are allowed to choose and seek and find our way in this life, then He who owns us all will Judge.
C.L. Familiaris.
Mutazili ?… allow me to quote Mr Bean’s favorite politician, Sarah Palin’s famous request, “Please explain”
Actually the miracle of the Koran is this. There are no intercessors needed.- Kathy
Unfortunately, all religions end up having intercessors or religious middlemen.
The Bible never mention about pastors, but Christians ended having a Pope, Archbishops. Bishops etc.
Human beings are lazy thinkers. They want things the easy way. Having intercessors is good for them. Because if things go wrong, they have a reason not to blame God or themselves.
The funny thing about Buddhism is this: the monks are there to learn and explain the dharma to the laymen, but they ended up being worshipped like some semi-gods for having the knowledge of the dharma. That is weird. Perhaps Tean-the-monk can explain why.
Only atheists have no intercessors.
God gave us life and a planet to live in -reeperbahn
Wrong. It was the BIG BANG that gave life and this planet and other planets.
As a consequence, the Big Bang created God in the process.
reeperbahn.
You see, if there is NO life, there is no God. Inanimate things don’t pray to God.
By the way, you know the saying, if there is no night, there is no such thing as day.
So if there is no Evil, there is no Goodness. The corollary to that is thisL If there is no Devil/Satan, there won’t be God.
To wish away and destroy the Devil would result in wishing away and destroy the existence of God. No?
i feel completely overwhelmed at all of YOU here…. talking with great depth & SUBSTANCE, like the age of ” Enlightenment” itself all over again…
Dato Din’s piece is so enlightening in some of its religio-historical beginnings in our close relationship that we are in the Judo-Christian-Islamic traditions, like as if We MUST Embrace one-another… (Jakim may find displeasure in this ).
@ Frank & CLF, its great stuff to revel in your state of Awareness, putting things slightly differently leading to same or similar conclusions…’brains’ working for us….
@ Kathy, very admirably put about how or why the Prophet of the Arabs ( in fact all of those from Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus (peace be upon all of them), who were the Chosen Elect sent down as ” The Anti-Thesis” to ” evil”and forces of ‘darkness’ , obeying the Will of God AlMighty….
For me, this lill bit here : God is in the Generic term of refrence, so that whatever humankind choose to ” Worship” , air, water, wind whatever, its his free choice… he reaps what he sows….
” Allah ” in the Arabic Qura’nic revelation, is ” Identifiable “, and a Definitive Entity, Specfic, not Generic…..therefore ” Known ” and ” Knowable ” –
The beginning of the “journey” in the Qura’n :
” Man Arafah Nafsahu Faqat Arafah Rabbah…..
Faqat Arafah Rabbhahu Fasaddul jasad….”
( Arafah in Arabic is Knowledge….)
There are 99-Attributes Names surrounding the One=Definitive, so that all that 99 Converge into the One……..
Peace….
“Only atheists have no intercessors”
And that is why the religious leaders and preachers ie those self-appointed middlemen for God HATE atheists and launch brainwashing propaganda attacks for their followers to attack atheists.
The reasons: Atheists make their jobs irrelevant in the scheme of things.
Popes, Bishops, Muftis and Ulemas actually don’t have a real job. Most time it is a con job. Some even become criminals eg paedophiles
clarification : in fact from the time of Prophet Noah, to Abraham, to Moses and to Jesus Christ (pbh unto them), they were all Children of Israel, Jews ” Bani Israel”. Beloved Prophet of Arabia, from the descendant of Ishmael, the second son of Abraham through Siti Hagar – the first was Isaac from wife Sarah – became the Chosen Elect to unify the entire chaotic conditions in the Arabian penesula in his 25-year Ministry;
Well, Chosen Elect are absolved from ” wrong-doings” , they were granted or graced with Immunity, so that whatever messages they conveyed or uttered and through Conduct ” became ” right ” EVEN if men perceived as ” wrong” – indeed Vouchsafed….
Frank, a reasoned ‘being’ is a much better person than a fanatic-fundamentalist – no matter what stripe of religion or none that he professes to be. But rationality can only go so far to explain the human condition or the validity of ‘morals and ethics’.
In many ways, the term ‘Atheist’ has devolved into negative connotations of ‘disbelief’. Most misunderstand the term, just because they are not convinced of the validity of a system which they deem as ‘dys-belief’. Early Christians were regarded as ‘atheists’ and persecuted as such, just because they refused to worship or genuflect to a mute statue of the Roman Emperor.The were considered, firstly Heretics, then Atheists resulting in widespread martyrdom. It still happens.
A rabid follower of system and organization, often has limited awareness of possibilities and lateral thinking. Nor do they reflect on their own deficiencies – and they always cast the ‘first stone’.
The Mutazalis were the heirs to the Greek philosophers on logic, inquiry, tradition and reason, i.e Hellenized. As a result the Abbasids allowed a flowering of medieval ‘science’ and ‘humanities’. They were ecumenical and had mutual respect for other traditions and cultures, allowing for plurality of thinking/acting. However, the weight of history went against them. Who needs a rationalist, when self-indulgences and following concrete methods is easier?
The oft quoted doyen of ‘Atheism’ R. Dawkins once said: “It’s just that I’m not 100% sure that there is a God described or prescribed, but I certainly don’t believe in fairies down the garden path.”, or something to the effect. So my friend, i know where you are.
Specifically on this Frank, i can feel as you feel…..children below 6-7 years old being ‘tormented’ on daily basis, day in day out, year in year out….. how it deeply hurts someof us, to witness the spectacle of them being deprived of their early childhood,supposedly to grow up in bliss and sweet-innocence… but instead being shattered due largely through ignorance & stupidity…..
How can they claim ” good intentions ” when indeed they know it pricks their ” conscience” that what they are doing is……..well, disgracefull !
A rabid follower of system and organization, often has limited awareness of possibilities and lateral thinking. Nor do they reflect on their own deficiencies – and they always cast the ‘first stone’. – CLF
were you by any chance describing the malaysian society moulded by umno-bn politics in the last fifty odd years?
Frank,
unfortunately the society is composed of people in varying stages of mental evolution, therefore you can’t tell them the truth point blank.
it was reported sometime ago that UK scientist were able to isolate a chemical in the human body which induces piety. from my knowledge in studying zoology I can say that the human brain is armed with many self-preserving systems like shock and coma which gives the body ample time to adjust to a sudden change in the environment or injury.
religious feeling, piety, is also one of them to prepare the individual for the impending demise from this world. thats why the older you get the more pious you become.
unfortunately the human being having found out that religion is a good tool for politics started abusing it. thats where our problems started.
I adopt the strict views of my father, that is, not to insult and ridicule any religion but to bare the pros and cons to people and let them decide for themselves.
I look out my big panorama window in the sixth floor and sometimes I’d imagine that I’d see a Flying Saucer one day which would put all our religious teachers in a Fix! how interesting that would be?
Hi Frank
I like your comment about the con job of the preachers. Religion is man made and like most things man made is susceptible to flaws. This is part of human flaw when given too much power or matters wrongly interpreted to suit circumstances or whoever. We have much evidence these days to NOT rely on religion we must move on from Alchemy to chemistry, from astrology to astronomy and from mythical and voodonistic practices to medicine. Our morality or virtuous conduct is part of our innate character when we evolve as a specie. There is so much misery already in the world and in large part attributable or exploited in the face of religion and perhaps the every end of civilization.
Our system of governance must be COMPLETELY overhauled from basic human rights, equal opportunities to all sexes and inclination, education, employment, how we are governed and how we react to other fellow human beings. Yes we have the ability to sense what IS right or wrong and we don’t need religion to shape that, thank you very much.
” There is no God but God” and you cannot understand why?
Monotheism those days was a radical concept and a departure from what was the norm then. Human beings were praying to different Gods and stone idols. Muslims were not the first to have found monotheism. Was it not to Moses that God spoke, “I am a jealous God”? Meaning only pray to Him and not to pray to stone idols.
This country has been on the wrong track for the last three decades. It is time politicians accept that religion is extremely divisive. It will take many more decades to undo the damage done – if at all. More important the Malays must realize that UMNO is messing up with their heads. The sooner they realize that the better.
why the older you get the more pious you become.- reeperbahn
Here is the real reason : The older people get, the greater the fear of dying, so the weak minds resort to religion for a false sense of comfort.. Ie being pious. Some fall back more onto religion out of guilt of their past rather for the love of God.
It is more useful to talk about how Islam is not incompatible with democracy.
Monotheism is just a fad of the present time , like pantheism of ancient times.
Atheism , a natural progression in human thought, will be much more radical in the future. In many generations to come, humanity will have a good laugh at Monotheism as now we do to pantheism, Animism etc.
It’s just a fad. Mankind WILL evolve higher level of understanding on how to conquer his fear of the unknown.
Always give yourself a window of doubt in your spiritual beliefs. It cannot be ABSOLUTE ETERNAL TRUTH, as history shows about mankind’s attempts to come to grips with forces of nature they don’t understand and can’t control
Because evidence everywhere appears to show that Islam is inherently incompatible at least with the western concept of liberal democracy.
It is all about individualism and the liberty of the individual e.g. the right of a woman to choose her right to privacy, her right over her reproductive capacity. We now have laws that allow abortion, a woman’s right to terminate her pregnancy but not without a balancing test. The balance is between a woman’s right to choose and the right of the state to protect life. When does interest shift from the woman’s right to privacy, over her own reproductive functions to the state? Is it at time of viability of the foetus or is it earlier? At the end of the first trimester? These are real life issues and not some vague concepts for pinheads to debate at forums.
Today we have gay marriages being made legal. Because it is about freedom to choose. And yet as a liberal democracy we maintain our Judeo-Christian tradition. In the U.S. there are anti-sodomy laws even today. They are just not enforced. But sodomy is also practiced by heterosexuals and straight partners. Again it is about equality and equal protection of our law.
You cannot become a Jew. You can only convert to Judaism which does make you a Jew. Being a Jew is about being born into a community. An Islamic way of life with its emphasis on the community rather than the individual isn’t too far from that. How then do we reconcile such divergent values?
Malaysia is a good example. All the troubles we are seeing is because Malaysians are not clear about their choices.
” The more we know….the we come to know how little we know…” renowned Scientists have ” admitted” that. Like Sir Isaac Newton for example, why did he say of the limitless, ‘infinite’ material universe as The Second Divinity, b’coz matter iis known to be Finite ? Albert Einstein too, if we care to read & understand him. Only pseudo-Scientists will not admit that. Isaac Newton impliedly is acknowledging the First Divinity in fact as Creator of the Second….
Then again, the most famous Spanish spiritualist/mystic implied the same thing : ” As the Aggregate of all the Laws i n the Universe ( moral laws, physical laws, scientific laws )….. God is the Highest Perfection ” Read Newton again when he describes God as the Most Supremely Intelligent Force to have created Creation, also as The Supreme Designer, Supreme Architect and….and…. The Supreme Mathematician, b’coz the mateial Universe, though appearing choatic, is ‘ Mathematically ” precise, Awesome.
No, no…..Salvation does not lie in ” Religion “, but rather on the Benevolence & Grace or Blessings of this God in the Old Testament ” Know ye that I am a jealous God….” in deference to people who worship Idols, and those that think that ” Earth, Wind & Fire ” is their Salvation, which consumes them…..our choice….is that NOT what Free-will is supposed to mean ?
Good grief, what’s happening to you, Abnizar?
Mine eyes lachrymose excessively reading that stuff you post.
Take it easy buddy, have some Panadol or Brufen. Maybe some Xanax?
Xanax? Yummy.
To paraphrase “When Harry met Sally”, I’ll have what Abnizar is going to have.
My gut feeling about the Arab Spring is one of foreboding.
Unlike the Iranian Revolution, the rise of Islam in the Arab Spring has legitimacy and world recognition – because it was voted in democratically. This legitimate power could easily be hijacked by the very ulamas that this thread is opposed to. What then?
The Muslim Brotherhood’s party having the biggest number of seats in Egypt is a case in point.
Sorry mates…..i am convinced about narrow & parochial human knowledge, so i will reitterate what non=pseudo Scientists have said or admitted in the past : ” the more we know….the more we come to know how LITTLE we know…..”
It will be good to know the mind of Albert Einstein :
” Science without religion is lame…
Religion without Science is Blind…..”
Conclusion : Its the pseudo-Scientists & pseudo-Religionists who often say much, but know very little…..
Not panadol, i need a ‘ setengah ‘ to put me to sleep….lol….
A bit sober now after the ‘setengah’…so what’s the point ?
The point is : Salvation is direct ‘ one to One ‘ , dependant on whether the One will accept or Reject ( if not accepted, one will be put in a Reject shop) .
There definitely will not be acceptance if we are led to believe there will be salvation MERELY by being in particular group or particular religion… that’s hijacking ” salvation ” from the rightfull owner….
saja laaa ‘ setengah’ pendapat….