The Inexorable Pursuit of an Islamic State by PAS

November 18, 2012

The Inexorable Pursuit of an Islamic State by PAS

by Dr. Ahmad Farouk Musa, Islamic Renaissance Front

If there is anything unmistakably clear from the recent muktamar or general assembly of the Islamic Party of Malaysia – PAS – is that despite the acceptance of the concept of tahalluf siyasi or political consensus among the three major components of the opposition front – Pakatan Rakyat – PAS’ ambition in establishing an Islamic State and implementing hudud laws is unwavering, if not more resolute.

It appears rather incongruous that despite the acceptance of Buku Jingga or Orange Book as a comprehensive framework of the opposition front on how to govern the country when they come to power, PAS seems to have a higher agenda – to transform the multiracial and multi-religious country into a full-fledged Islamic state with Islamic laws.

Islamic laws and hudud were never mentioned in Buku Jingga and neither was the establishment of Islamic State. PAS even came out with its own manifesto “Nation of Care and Opportunity”. However this concept of a benevolent state is not well received by many PAS members themselves. Reason being, the so-called Erdoganists in PAS mainly mooted it.

Recent spate of debate about the concept of Islamist Democrat – a term popularised by the Erdoganists – between the ulama faction and the young Turks clearly proved that they are considered contaminants in the “pure and pristine” PAS struggle.

The changing trend

While PAS has been in existent since 1951, it has remarkably shown to be very consistent in its struggle ever since, no matter how insensible it could have been to many. PAS has tried to restore Islam’s place as a central reference point for all social, cultural, economic and political life in Muslim society. In the words of Bobby Said in his book A Fundamental Fear: Eurocentrism and the Emergence of Islamism, he said: “Islamism is a project that attempts to transform Islam from a nodal point in the discourse of Muslim communities to a master signifier. In particular, the Islamist project is an attempt to make Islam the master signifier of the political order”.

However this project of political Islam has taken a new turn after what is known as the Arab Spring or the Arab Awakening. The discourse now is not about establishing an Islamic State or implementing hudud laws. The aspiration now is to nurture pious Muslims within a democratic polity.

Rachid Ghannouchi, leader of en-Nahdha in Tunisia has categorically rejected Islamic State in favour of parliamentary democracy. His party en-Nahdhah is committed to social justice, multiparty democracy and religious pluralism.

A Professor of Sociology at the University of Illinois, Asef Bayat termed this shift as post-Islamism. There was a clear shift from the age-old slogan of al-Islam huwa al-hal – Islam is the solution to all problems – to a more practical approach and solution.

As put forward by Rachid Ghannouchi in interpreting the saying of the Prophet: “You are the best people to know what is beneficial for you in your worldly affairs” meaning to say that it is not the duty of religion to teach us agriculture, industrial or even governing techniques.

Reason is qualified to teach this truth through the accumulation of experiences. The role of religion, however, is to answer the big question for us, those relating to our existence, origins, destiny and the purpose for which we were created. It is to provide us with a system of values and principles that would guide our thinking, behavior and the regulation of the state to which we aspire.

Same old rhetoric

For those who followed closely the recent Muktamar, it is evident that PAS is still trapped in the age-old agenda. Implementing hudud laws still remains a priority in its struggle. Obviously this is a clear contradiction to the mutually agreed Buku Jingga. Whether they are aware of the repercussion or not, it definitely provides ammunition to the ruling party, UMNO-BN, that PAS has an ulterior motive to change this country into an Islamic State.

The patronising speech by Head of Dewan Ulama or the Religious Council in saying in a jest that hudud will create more job opportunities since training is needed in order to chop off hands and that training is also needed for caning of alcohol drinkers only showed that they are not serious about the current economic problems faced by the nation. It is as though by simply implementing hudud, all the economic woes and social ills of the society will be solved.

Nothing serious was discussed about the idea of nation of care and opportunity. PAS seems to have lost interest in pursuing the welfare state agenda. The main tone that vibrates especially among the Islamic scholars was nothing more than hudud and their unyielding push for this agenda and not in the least worried about going public about it.

Little Napoleons in PAS

One of the most worrying trends during the Muktamar is the voices of little Napoleons who tried to silence Harakah and the online Harakahdaily who had been accused to give more space to progressive figures in PAS and sidelining conservative forces.

Harakah is accused to have strayed away from its original intent and aspiration of PAS. Such an act would have been seen by many who understand freedom of the press as stifling with the most fundamental foundation of freedom of speech.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression: this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference, and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers.

Now this act by the little Napoleons in PAS only showed how much they understand and respect human rights and what the future may hold if they come to power. There will not be any room left for dissension and differing opinions than what is being held by them.

The Political Reality

Perhaps the most important thing that PAS should appreciate and understand is that the appeal for hudud and Islamic State is not there anymore in the post-Islamism period. PAS should not misunderstand the votes they received as amounting to the support for their Islamic agenda.

More than a hundred thousand went to the street for demonstration during Bersih 3.0 recently. The demand was not to implement hudud or establishing an Islamic state. People of various races and religions from all walks of life marched together for a better democracy. They wanted a clean and fair election and a government free of corruption. It was an act of defiance to the draconian and unconstitutional Act that prevented people from any peaceful assembly.

It must be heard loud and clear that the people want a truly democratic state. Not a state ruled by a group of Mullahs who considered themselves to be above the law. The precedent was already set when one state under PAS passed an enactment that a fatwa or religious verdict from a Mufti cannot be challenged in the court of law.

It has to be understood that the state is not something from God but from the people. The state has to serve the benefit of the people and not just a certain group based on their faith. The state has to be neutral in all aspects. It must also be made clear that a state is a human product and managing a state requires human endeavor and not divine inspiration. The governance of a state falls under the realm of political and is not in the realm of revelation.

Any observance of religious values must never be through coercion. A state should respect personal beliefs and moral values and not imposed itself on its citizens. Unfortunately, the current situation in states under PAS rule failed to prevent this obtrusion of the state into private sphere. A state should not dictate how we should wear in public as this falls under personal affairs. However to regulate how women should dress seemed to be the first agenda under many Islamic governments; PAS not excluded.

Matters of the heart such as faith should be left to individuals. It is not the state to meddle in matters of the heart. There is no value in observing a faith that was made through coercion. Coercing people to believe in a faith they have no believe anymore through state’s coercive tools only turn them into hypocrites. People are created free and any effort of the state to coerce people from embracing or leaving a faith is worthless and futile.

The Road Forward

As a concluding remark, it must be re-emphasised that Islam in one way or another has always influenced a state under Muslim rule throughout history. Islam has not known a separation between state and religion in the sense of excluding religion altogether from public life. However a clear demarcation must be made between what belongs to the realm of ad-deeni or religious and those that fall under as-siyasi or political.

Great Islamic jurists like ash-Shatibi and Ibnu Ashur have agreed that the highest objective of all divine messages is to establish justice and attaining maslahah by realizing people’s interest. The pursuit of justice and public interest is done merely through the exercise of reason. And religion only provides values and guidelines in this pursuit.

Hence it is wrong to envisage that governing a state must follow a fixed manual and that manual is none other than the Qur’an. The domain of state governance falls under as-siyasi – the political – that will require human intellect to establish justice and equality.

Thus justice cannot be achieved unless human rights are secured for every individual and group in this country. And primary among human rights are rights to belief and to express one’s belief.

In a country that has achieved independence since 1957, the sovereign nation was founded upon the principles of justice and freedom as stated in the Declaration of Independence. Unfortunately, the principles of justice and freedom were forgotten and the provisions of fundamental liberties enshrined in the constitution were progressively compromised and eroded by the ruling elite.

Our aim now is to recover the lost hope, of justice and freedom, and not to turn this country into another repressive state that claims to rule with a mandate from God.

Amanat Presiden PAS

This article was originally published by the New Mandala. It has since been republished in the Malaysian Insider.

42 thoughts on “The Inexorable Pursuit of an Islamic State by PAS

  1. Talking heads in pin striped suits and white skull caps and salt and pepper beards can bloviate all they want, till the cows come home about this Islamic state that one claims Malaysia to be and the other denies it. The real issue is religious freedom – not just of the Malays but also the non-Malays and non-Muslims.

    There is nothing in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia 1957 that says religious freedom is guaranteed only for the non-Malays and non-Muslims. Not Article 11 (1) nor sub-clause (4) nor an innocuous and obscure provision dealing with ‘definitons’ under Article 160 (2).

    The Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land: Article 4. And any state law that comes in conflict with federal law is null and void. Period.

    Contrary to Article 11 (1) non-Malays and non-Muslims are not enjoying the kind of unfettered freedom guaranteed by it i.e. to set up their own places of worship etc. Their rights under the Constitution have seen a gradual erosion over the years and have widened to include their right to choose their own religion if they are children of non-Malays who are converts to Islam.

    To ordinary folks these are the real issues crying out for resolution and not some academic issue of whether the country is an Islamic or secular state which talking heads from all fields can bloviate all they want.

  2. Listen to Ustaz Abdul Hadi at the 58th PAS Muhtamar carefully. There is a clear message to all Malaysians that PAS will pursue the cause of Justice. The President talks about Kerajaan Islam (Islamic Government) which is just, transparent, competent and accountable in partnership with its associates in Pakatan Rakyat.–Din Merican

  3. Nigel
    3:58PM Nov 18, 2012
    PAS President Abdul Hadi Awang has shot down former Premier Dr Mahathir Mohamad over his demand that hudud law cover everyone including non-Muslims.

    He explained Mahathir’s assertion that different punishments for Muslims and non-Muslims would be seen as unfairness and are against the teachings of Islam.

    “There is a distinction between fairness for all and rights for all.Non-Muslims have rights to do what is allowed in their own religion,” he told a press conference after the 58th national PAS muktamar in Kota Baru.

    An example, Abdul Hadi said, was how hudud law governs alcohol.

    “People who drink alcohol will be punished, that is hudud law. But it does not punish non-Muslims because it is allowed is their own religion,” he said.

    Abdul Hadi also took a swipe at Mahathir , suggesting that the former Premier should confine his comments to the medical field.

    He reiterated that the Islamic party had a right to lobby for hudud law but it will only do it through the democratic process.

    Queried on whether the syura council’s decision that PAS has not veered off from its original struggle meant that its concept of ‘welfare state’ was the same with its previous agenda of an ‘Islamic state’, Abdul Hadi appeared to side-step the question.

    “Islam is a religion that accept all that is good, not only from the Islamic civilisation but from the Arab world as well as the Chinese, Indian and Greek civilisations.Islamic civilisation also involves non-Muslims, including knowledge such as medicine, astronomy, science and technology,” he said.

  4. An Islamic government?? That to me is coded language for many things that have gone unsaid. The federal constitution of 1957 envisages a secular government with Malay and Muslim trappings – which is not the same as an Islamic government the daily administration of which will have to comply strictly with Islamic tenets. You cannot pretend that 40% of Malaysians do not exist.

    Already there are talks about a Muslim architecture for churches and temples and that stone idols are not to be on conspicous public display.

  5. The Old Goat is only using religious issue to drive home the point that PAS and DAP are strange bedfellows. They sleep in the same bed but are legally not married to each other (have other wives) and are unable to consumate the ‘marriage’.

  6. Reference dinobeano @9:33pm quoting Abdul Hadi “People who drink alcohol will be punished, that is hudud law. But it does not punish non-Muslims because it is allowed in their own religion” – OK, noted. But what if a non-Muslim steals or rapes – will he be punished by hudud law?
    There are other laws to deal with rape and theft. I don’t really care about the huddud debate between UMNO and PAS.That is politics to gain Malay voter support. Let us ensure that our Judiciary is independent to administer justice.–Din Merican

  7. PAS is a misfit in the PR coalition which is only a united front of convenience. The DAP and PAS will always be at odds in terms of political ideologies and objectives. Even the PKR is getting uncomfortable at times with PAS. The idea for the PR to be an alternative candidate to govern the country at the federal level is just not credible.

  8. Well.., a lil bitty red wine with grape-skin is good. Contains resveratrol, which prolongs life. Moderate imbibers enjoy much. But really, we don’t need to drink too much, before realizing that a lot of non-alcoholic folks suffer from delirium tremens.

    In a multicultural, multiethnic and multireiligious environment, no One is isolated on an island. What this Syariah does is to divide and is inherently exclusive. Do the Muslims want to ‘contain’ all the nons into ghettos: Apartheid in other words? What ever happened to Inclusitivity and the Universality?

    PAS remains convinced of their ideology and like all fundamentalists will take the literal approach, once the present crop of morderate leaders ride into the sunset. Is there any real difference between the Erdogans and Ulamaks? No. Persecution of non-Muslims remain the same in a so-called secular nation like Turkey. The only difference is the delayed ejaculation of demanding ‘Submission’ due to political expediency. They will lose even the urban and educated Malay votes, if they persist in this – but then, they have nothing else to yodel about..

  9. Farouk,dont be upset what had been said or debate in PAS muktamar.You should attend the UMNO general assembly on 25 to 30 Nov.What will be debated by UMNO delegates will be worst than PAS muktamar.That is why they never allow the debated by delegates will be live telecas.

    They will talk about projects,money,Malay leadership and Malay supremacy.
    You must remember PAS delegates are mainly simple people from kampong with minimum qualification.

  10. Ask PAS give up Islamic state and Hudud? It’s easier to ask UMNO to give up corruption and abuse of power.

    Its the right of PAS to keep fighting for their ideology. Right thinking people don’t want to take them away for it. All the rhetoric is In fact its only healthy for them and everyone else. What is feared is that they will do it without political discourse – by sheer force and in secrecy. So long as they are willing to be transparent, respect the law, anyone of them can say anything they want.

    I fully expect some people in PAS someday to resort to force and secrecy some day – backroom deal with UMNO and someone else will happen again..BUT if reform is done now, where we restore our judiciary and other institutions, they are but temporary setbacks that is for this nation to deal with.. Its simply who we are..

  11. Such deep analysis and profound thoughts on the Muktamar, although it is nice to feel intellectual and contributing to the discourse.

    Frankly, I suspect, most people do not care to dissect and delve into what was said and by whom. They just want to get on with their lives, have a good shot at equal economic opportunities, care for their families, go about in safety, and a government that is honest and really dedicated to promoting the best interests of all.

    The current government, due to the greed and stupidity of the incumbents, is failing on almost all those counts, and given a choice, highfalutin ideas and ideals come out second best to the raw brass tacks that people have to grind through everyday.

    On that score, the Pakatan Rakyat deserves a chance to rule and hopefully provide an alternative to the thieves we have today in Putrajaya that will prove the best for ALL Malaysians.

  12. Here’s one problem for you guys to think about. In the offence of close proximity under syariah law, if the man is a non-Malay and non-Muslim what justice is there when you drag the female Muslim partner to court and the other goes free??

  13. Under civil law, it is not a crime for a Malay to be spending time with his non-Muslim secretary behind closed doors (office is closed) supervising her in her overtime work. But JAWI comes along and indict the Malay Muslim employer for the offence of close proximity under syariah law. Or are we supposed to think there is no crime since the female employee is a non-Muslim? A serious jurisdictional issue here.

  14. The fact is that PAS is still determined to strive for its Islamic agenda and the DAP is dead against it. These two parties within the PR coalition will never be able to compromise on their principles and their seeming political cooperation is only superficial and an eye-wash to look good to the unsuspecting public. Under this situation the PR will not be a credible candidate for Putrajaya.

  15. “…..PAS someday to resort to force and secrecy some day – backroom deal with UMNO and someone else will happen again” – bigjoe99

    Well, when push comes to shove the inevitable will happen as with other democracies when the once dominant party needs support to remain in power. Umno and PAS will embrace one another for a good reason – to maintain Malay integrity. GE13 will be a litmus test.

  16. Familiaris, persecution of non muslims in present day (Erdogan’s) turkey- is this something you read about somewhere? Or witnessed for yourself? Examples please. I didn’t see much difference in turkey compared with europe during my visits, except some of them went to mosques instead of churches.

  17. Hadi Awang could take his eye off the ball when he mentioned drinking alchohol as an example…But mind you, what about Hudud offenses like rape, adultery, theft, robbery and even murder?? Is there a separate capital punishment for non-muslims?? Is he blinded by the fact that both muslims and non-muslims commit the same offenses???…OMG!!

  18. why are we debating something unproductive. food come first, then only religion. Without having enough food to nourish your body and mind, religion will never emerge/manifest in your thought.

    If mankind failed to coexist harmoniously due to religious differences per se, we could only blame our stupidity of being manipulated by the concept of “religion” which have little or no meaning as it is all up to us make it meaningful.

  19. Dear Mazlan Manaf, here’s something for you. I don’t care very much for CBN, but the report seems true from other sources:

    Sound’s familiar?

  20. Presently I do not give a hoot about hudud in Malaysia. What I am more concern with is the administration of justice. First there is the PDRM which supposed to be investigating crime but prefer extracting confessions from suspects. Then there is the AG who plays around with his discretionary power to prosecute or not. Lastly, there are the judges whom the public have lost their respect.

    I would not be surprised if UMNO pull the rug under Pas by introducing hudud in Malaysia. Pas members and the simpleton Malays will vote for UMNO in droves. With the PDRM, AG and judges in UMNO pocket, the first group of people who will be ‘persecute’ under hudud with be Pas and the other Muslims opposition leaders.

    Don’t ask for something that later can be abused and misused against you in this Bolehland.

  21. all this nonsensical talk about nons going scot free after rape and murder. the civil law will take care of them as usual – is that difficult to understand?

    I endorse the hudud for all malay muslims and other muslims. especially for the crime of incest and rape, their pathetic barang should be severed and undergo a sex change operation so they can feel how it is to be raped, especially by fathers and relatives.

    Erdogan has the same problem as the leader of PAS. they have to satisfy both the moderate and radical factions in the party. it is similar to what umno achieves with its Perkasa connection. that is politics. PAS has no chance of winning alone and they should realise that teaming up with BN will bring them no better chance and worse still they’ll get raped by umno.

    persecution of non-muslims in Turkey? why no, you expect to see it in tourist resorts, mazlan? for example non-muslims don’t have the same citizen standard as the muslims.

  22. In 1918, Clause 4 of the British Labour Party Constitution reads: “To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.”

    In 1995, it read: “The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential and for all of us a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few, where the rights we enjoy reflect the duties we owe, and where we live together, freely, in a spirit of solidarity, tolerance and respect.”

    In less than 100 years, the Labour Party has changed it’s ideological holy grail to better suit the present time.

    The original clause 4 was not only criticised by the Conservatives and the Liberal Party, it also sat uneasily with many in the right of the Labour party. It was an outdated ideology.

    The basic difference with God’s law is that it can neither be criticised nor changed.

  23. No dearth of political pundits on everything else but the issue of religion freedom – implicit and embodied in the larger apparently benign issue of whether Malaysia is an Islamic state. Why do we care if Malaysia is an Islamic state or not. Hellllooo !? Knock, knock, anybody home??

  24. Under PAS, Tean-Rean, a staunch Buddhist. may not live to see pagodas, stupas or suchlike structures replaced by domes and minarets but the generations that come after him are likely to see those replaced to coincide with Malaysia being an Islamic state run by an Islamic government.. What wimps and woosies do we call these elected representatives??

  25. God’s Law cannot be changed? Oh dear.., my covenantal theology has gone out the window – i need to be circumcised asap and stop eating all those non-kosher stuff! Yikes, Lord have mercy!

    Oh.. it’s just you Ai Tze. For a moment i thought St Peter had returned..!

  26. The numerous mention of the word “Islam” throughout the Federal Constitution of 1957 makes Malaysia into an Islamic state as much as the numerous qualifications made to fundamental liberties i.e. free speech, assembly, association, religion etc makes Malaysia a totalitarian state. Malaysia is a constitutional monarchy an idea that is inherently opposed to the idea of an (Islamic) republic. No matter how you cut it, Malaysia is not an Islamic state. It is everything else but an Islamic state. How then do you explain amendment made to Article 121 of the Federal Constitution? Asked and answered. It is against the spirit of the 1957 Constitution (and to stir the pot further, the ‘underlying social contract’) and is ipso facto ultra vires the 1957 Constitution.

  27. Religious freedom in Malaysia is in its death throes. In tribute to it and the religious diversity that we once stood for, I play this song in reflection of the good times we had in the ’50s and 60s..

  28. The Federal Constitution is the supreme law of the land: Article 4. And any state law that comes in conflict with federal law is null and void. Period. – Mr Bean

    Says who?

    Since Kutty Supremo became PM for 22 years, the Federal Constitution had been rolled up into a toilet paper by the UMNO-led regime. Since when was the last time the Constitution was the supreme law of the land. Even the former Lord President who after taking over the Perak royal household didn’t believe it either.

    The constitution is only a paper of convenience… Nothing sacred or binding aboutmit… When you need to use it, just roll it down, like one of those you would use when Mother Nature makes a calling.

  29. I have taken all the punishment that I could possibly take meted out by the God of the Old Testament; and now, like Hasnah, as a sinner I am ready for some love and forgiveness.

  30. My dear Bean, secular or Islamic, it does not matter. As long as we remember these scenes – which were more popular in Raghead country – yet denied to us here; and this song who many took to be ‘secular’:

  31. Bean, you can’t be serious ” taken all the punishment that I could possibly take meted out by the God of the Old Testament..” Were you punished by God or man acting as representative of God on Earth?
    Isn’t the God of the Old Testament and God of the New Testament the one and the same? You did acknowledge “There is but one God”

    Maybe just like Hasnah you were shown kindness by your fellow human instead of the harsh “thy shalt not” of the old church, mosque goers. Perhaps that is what is lacking in Islam, better understanding and kindness as shown by all the Prophets pbut.
    Lakumdinukum waliyadin

  32. reeperbhan… here is my response to your comment on other thread “Is Malaysia an Islamic or Secular State” [19/11 @10.52pm]. The topic and issues are identical.

    If I were TGNA and TGHA, I will not focus on an Islamic State or Hudud because in my opinion the condition and system to establish an Islamic State is far from ready.

    I will make it small and peaceful. I will focus on an Islamic society without hudud. I will focus on a society that combines all the good features of capitalism and socialism; a society in which there is no concentration/accumulation of wealth in a few hands; a society which is responsible for providing relief to every one whether Muslim or non Muslim; a society in which there is no slums, exploited proletariat and exploiting bourgeoisie; a society which is corruption-free; a society where progress is not by quantum-leap, but gradual and organic.

    I would support the above with the following thoughts and observations:

    Dr R.R. Marret : “Real progress is progress in charity, all other advances being secondary thereto”.

    Aldous Huxley : “Such is the world in which we find ourselves a world which judged by the only acceptable criterion is progress, is manifestly in regression. Technological advance is rapid. But without progress in charity, technological progress is useless. Indeed, it is worse than useless. Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going back on our words”.

    H.G. Wells : “Islam has created a society more free from widespread cruelty and social oppression than any society had ever been in the world before”. [The Outline of History].

    Finally, when the end is near and when my time comes, and if God ask me why I did not implement hudud, my answer is.. “My Lord, I have Malays, Indians, Chinese, Chindians, and many other races… I want them all to rediscover and renovate themselves and enrich and enlighten each other with synthesis and mutual repect and co-operation, first”. Period.

  33. dear hasan aka zul,
    the difference, that matters, between an islamic government and secular government is the laws these governments bring with them. these laws, a very essential part of a nation, determines the direction of the country.

    the noble values you speak of, especially charity, is peculiar to the humans only. we feel good when we do good and it is contagious, it is scientifically verified.

    I am, and most of us believe in these values as you do.
    I don’t criticise Islam directly but only like to point out that we have to change according to time to survive as people and nation.

    the religion Islam is dragged through the mud and effaced, not by nons but by the greedy political masters of Malaysia and elsewhere. for these people islam has become a tool with which to rule the country as dictators to amass luxury and wealth. they should bring the good of Islam to the fore and not the unpleasant punishments according to hudud or whatsoever. look on the good side of man and not always on his weaknesses.

    I respect H.G. Wells opinion and his contribution to Science Fiction, imagine a world without ‘the Time Machine’?
    he believed also that the ‘brown and black races’ to be inferior and therefore should be prevented from multiplying unchecked.

  34. I will focus on a society that combines all the good features of capitalism and socialism; a society in which there is no concentration/accumulation of wealth in a few hands; a society which is responsible for providing relief to every one whether Muslim or non Muslim; a society in which there is no slums, exploited proletariat and exploiting bourgeoisie; a society which is corruption-free; a society where progress is not by quantum-leap, but gradual and organic.- Hasan aka Zul

    That sounds like Paradise WITHOUT the 72 Virgin….

    Looks like you are also describing Singapore. Thank you very much. LKY would like to shake your hands.

  35. as a sinner I am ready for some love and forgiveness.- Mr Bean

    Love ?? Aim for the 72 Virgins

    Forgiveness for your sins ? You need to get it from Hyacinth Goddard.

  36. Mr Bean,Were you punished by God or man acting as representative of God on Earth? – orang Malaya

    Don’t be silly. He punishes himself, and to make sure he doesn’t appear like a cuckoo to others, he blames God, which he knows is located in between his ears.

  37. The debate on whether malaysia is an Islamic or secular state is a red herring and an absolute bloody waste of time.

    Because either way, it does not address the rising and blooming national debt.

    The pariah leaders in UMNO BN are deliberately distracting the voters fo a potentially economic catastrophe in the coming years. At this rate Malaysia will be like those beggar states in Africa… all it takes is for the Chinese to decide it is not worth doing business in the country or decides to move off shore.

    Mahathir’s children and the Syed Mokhtars of the world will suck up the economic life blood of the country and move overseas all their assets. The wealth of these NEP-life blood suckers are stashes in overseas real estates and bank accounts.

    Meanwhile the thousands of unemployable local graduates will put economic pressure on the country by demanding their RIGHTS to be a part of the middle class while expecting the rest of the country to pay their bills.

    Pakatan ifmit wins govt will inherit an economic problem left behind by UMNO-BN…. The cronies and their family will by then truly set themselves in their mansions in UK, Australia and Europe.

    And PAS will continue to kid itself with its ridiculous pursuit of an economically useless Islamic state and hudud laws to please the religious extremists in kopiahs and hijjabs.

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