Right to question Hudud Law


October 9, 2011

http://www.thestar.com.my

Right to question Hudud Law

By Azmi Sharom (10-06-11)

My problem with religion-based law making, is the idea that it cannot be questioned because it is divine in origin. In a democracy, if we can’t question the laws that affect our lives, then it is not a democracy at all.

POOR Fulham. Despite thoroughly thrashing Tony Fernandes’ Queens Park Rangers 6-0, all the sports headlines were about the other London derby where Tottenham Hotspur edged Arsenal 2-1.

I suppose it is all about perception; just what is important and what is not.As much as I would like to think that the game at White Hart Lane is an indication that the power in North London has shifted to Seven Sisters road, I am ever cautious and am reminded of the saying that a swallow does not a summer make. Although I suppose in the case of the Spurs-Arsenal rivalry, considering that we have beaten them three times in the last four league clashes, it just may be there is more than one swallow fluttering about.

However, I digress. My earlier point remains and that is the perception of what is important and what is not. At the moment, there are all sorts of news stories floating about and they point towards one thing, elections.

PAS has once again raised the hudud issue. Frankly, I am not too worried about this matter.Pakatan Rakyat has stated that they will not go on with hudud unless all the component parties agree.

This seems highly unlikely as DAP will never agree and I am sure there are some voices in Keadilan too who will not be comfortable with hudud. However, if they do try to introduce it, I will most certainly object.

The reason why I object is encapsulated in Hadi’s (PAS President Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang) statement in the press on the matter (if it was accurately reported) where he said that hudud cannot be questioned.

Whoa there, “cannot be questioned”? I am sorry, if you have personal beliefs that affect only you and you won’t question them, that’s all fine and dandy. But if you are going to introduce something into the public sphere, something that will affect the lives of the citizens, I don’t care if the source of what you are introducing is divine, it jolly well better be questioned.

And I don’t care if you say I have no degree from Al-Azhar and no goatee to go along with it, I will question any law that any government wants to introduce. This has been my problem with any religion-based law making, the idea that simply because it is divine in origin means it can’t be questioned. In a democracy, if we can’t question the laws that affect our lives, then it is not a democracy at all.

And then there is poor Mat Sabu; charged with criminal defamation for questioning the heroism of the policemen who fought at Bukit Kepong. I checked the Penal Code and sure enough, criminal defamation can be committed against the dead.

It’s a bit weird because how far back does this provision extend? I mean in historical matters there will always be different perspectives and differing opinions based on new findings and discoveries.

In case the Government decides to charge me with criminal defamation for questioning the character of one of our early leaders, let me use an American example. Is Thomas Jefferson; renaissance man who helped draft the American Constitution and ensured a modern democracy where all men were created equal, or a shameless hypocrite slave owner who fathered numerous children with his female slaves?

Both views are correct and depending on your own take on history the view that will take precedence will differ. And surely that was what Mat Sabu’s statement was; his take on history. Was it insensitive, probably, should he be prosecuted for it? I don’t think so.

However, all these issues are really not that important to me. I think they are just the usual sound and fury that come with politicians posturing in the light that elections are coming. The real important story for now should be the Budget and more importantly the alternative budget that the Pakatan has unveiled.

It is really good to see Pakatan acting like they have a Shadow Cabinet (although they don’t have one really). We need to see concrete counter proposals from the opposition to not only help us question the Government’s Budget but also to assess the alternatives which a different government could give. This is vital in a mature democracy.

I certainly hope that discussions in the next couple of weeks will be about comparing the two budgets for surely that is more important than a hudud law which is unlikely to be implemented and Mat Sabu’s supposed lack of patriotism.

Post Script: I don’t think the Fulham game was that important, who cares what happened at Craven Cottage. We beat Arsenal, again!

122 thoughts on “Right to question Hudud Law

  1. Yes, Prof. Azmi, this Hudud thing is a convenient diversion. PAS has shown its true colours as a result of a provocation by Tun Dr. Mahathir. If they persist, I will join you as I too have the right to challenge it and any other law. The PAS Supporters Club members will quit PAS, if the leadership fail to heed their warning. –Din Merican

  2. Soon after the 2008 elections an article appeared in HARAKAH entitled “Malaysia bukan UMNO punya”. I thought it was a fitting title.

    Now, the time has come to remind PAS that “Islam bukan PAS punya”.

    That remains the fundamental problem with religious folk. Every one of them thinks his and only his interpretation is correct. Look at the way Muslims are slaughtering each other in Pakistan and Iraq (just to name two) and you will see what I mean.

  3. Assalamualaikum . I don’t think it is enough to say I will join you! This is an important aspect in Islam. You should explain why you are not in agreeable with PAS stand. Why you are against Hudud?….

  4. ESHMAELAJENOOR : It is precisely because Shariah is an important aspect of our religion that some of us are asking for a debate – not because any of us is against it but because so many of us simply do not know exactly what it will mean.

    You also state “…explain why you are not (in) agreeable with PAS stand. Why you are against Hudud”

    Where is your logic my friend? Not to be in agreement with PAS does not mean one is against Hudud.

  5. Hmm.., this is getting to be more controversial than the Scopes ‘Monkey’ Trial.
    I would have thought all the legal opinions with regard to the Fed vs. State Constitutions have weighed in? No? So it’s still monkey see, monkey do?

  6. CLF : Obviously some folks in PAS are still not clear on the FED/State provisions in our country – otherwise the matter of Hudud would not be raised after the earlier case (in Trengganu, I believe).

  7. PAS hudud is political hudud. They try to bring Allah into the picture so that no thinking an rational Muslims can debate the application of hudud laws in a plural society like ours.

    I personally think we should stick to shariah Law and ensure that principles of justice and equity can be properly upheld in these courts.

    Recalcitrant husbands should be severely punish for the ill treatment of for children and former wife/wives. Can we take this little steps first.

    So is the body snatching nonsense that is going on in this country. Others are like the apostate and snoop squards interfering in the private lives of people and other religious practices. PAS should do this in Kelantan first before shooting their own foot , before behaving like a bunch of idiots :-(

  8. How would PAS deal with incestuous behavior which is prevalent in the Malay community? Even barbarians shy from this practice. Can TGNA explain this kind of behavior and tell us how he would deal with this issue.Is he going to blame the victim as he mentioned in his ceramah regarding “rape” , padan muko, cari penyakit tak tutup aurat :-(

    Don’t you think by harping on this issue, it makes a Muslim man weak?? As if they are barbaric and can’t control their desire. 

    Hijab is the term used by many Muslim women to describe their head cover that may or may not include covering their face except their eyes and sometimes also covering one eye. The Arabic word Hijab can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word Hijab include screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider etc. 

    The word “Hijab” appears in the Quran seven times, five of them as “Hijab” and twice as “Hijaban”. See 7:46, 17:45, 19:17, 33:53, 38:32, 41:5, 42:51. None of these “Hijab” words are used in the Quran in reference to what the traditional Muslims call today as the dress code for the Muslim woman. Hijab**in the Quran has nothing to do with the women’s dress code**. 

    The wearing of the head covering for women is not part of the Prophet’s teachings and is not found in the Quran. It is a belief and a practice that was taken by the early Muslim scholars from the Christian Bible.. What say the Muslim scholar n this? We been following this nun costume without understanding the Quran. Men keep on looking down at women, when during the Prophet(pbuh)’s time women were equal even at the battlefield!

  9. “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour’s.

    Today some may want to raise question about the ‘ass’ because it has come to mean many different things to different people. And so there is nothing wrong in asking – if to ask is to understand. But if to ask is to disagree, well, that is God’s commandment. And it has found its way into our civil law.

  10. My problem is UMNO in wanting to steal the thunder from PAS has introduced a double-tracked system of justice, making shariah law run parallel to civil law based on the English common law. Where does that get its basis from in the country’s Federal Constitution of 1957 when Article 4 clearly says that the Constitution is the supreme law of the Federation?

  11. There are allegations Umno/Bn trying to control the majority esp. those in the rural areas by keeping them ignorant and Pas, if by insisting on hudud is maybe one step ahead of Umno/Bn because it will then have the majority population under strict control with laws that cannot be questioned. Maybe snoop squad on every street corners?

  12. Would something like ‘who done it law’ be an issue today had UMNO not opened the floodgates with their amendment and introduction of a law which is ultra vires the Constitution?

  13. The Law requires this number of witnesses for this crime and that number of witnesses for that crime brings to mind this ZEN puzzle…

    “A tree fell in the forest but there was no one around to hear it…was there any sound?”

    “An act of disrepute was committed but there was no one around to witness it….can guilt be established?”

    Is above debatable…or is the “official” interpretation cast in stone?

    cheers!

  14. True Bean, but they’re still playing politics with the Law, dual tracked as it is. I think they should really look at the extremely disturbing North Nigerian and Sudan experience, before all these religious goons go overboard. I don’t mind if they huh-dud themselves to death, but keep out of the political process.

  15. “How would PAS deal with incestuous behavior which is prevalent in the Malay community ? Even barbarians shy from this practice” berukampong

    Muslims follow the Old Testament (and so do Christians and Jews) and we are all familiar with the story of Adam and Eve. When God ordered Adam and Even (first man and first woman) to “Go forth and populate the Earth” how could the Earth be populated without incest? That makes us all the product of an incestuous relationship.

  16. You can’t question something that you don’t understand. Same thing with hudud, people question hudud because they don’t understand comprehensively about islam.

    If you really know Allah and understand at heart the kalimah syahadah, you won’t dare to question His order, and hudud is one of His compulsory orders to human kind not to cause hardship but benefit rather because He is most gracious and most merciful. Just like does it make sense to question our parent orders when they know what is good and bad for us?

    So don’t question but rather as a muslim who will face Him in the “ultimate court of justice” in akhirat, pls make an effort to learn, understand and “beriman” with it so that our “return” to Him will be is the state of “husnulkhatimah”.

    Wabillahit taufik walhidayah.
    ______________
    In the end we all have to face divine justice. While on earth, we are duty bound to govern ourselves with laws which respect our fundamental rights via the Rule of Law. It is that simple. I for one will never allow a politician to preach his interpretation of the law. While I respect Nik Aziz’s religiosity, I have my own mind about a lot of things. I can think and reason and have a conscience.–Din Merican

  17. Islam is not just another religion. It is a way of life and has set views on all aspects of everyday life. We have come to recognize it as ‘political Islam’. You cannot prevent Islam from making its way into your living room and bedroom. There is no room for western liberal democracy with its emphasis on civil liberties.

    The kind of order that political Islam seeks to establish has roots in the writings of a proto-socialist John Jacques Rousseau a political thinker of the Enlightenment period after the French Revolution whose views inspired another political thinker Karl Marx.

  18. “So don’t question but rather as a Muslim who will face Him in the “Ultimate Court of Justice” in ‘Akhirat’, please make an effort to learn, understand …”

    It is this kind of circular argument that gives rise Facism and Communism.

  19. “(Muslim) men keep on looking down at women .. ” berukampong

    You will need to look down otherwise when you arrive at the Gates of Paradise you will never find your 72 Virgins. It is un-Muslim for women to be on top.

  20. As long as there is a lunatic fringe in PAS (not if, it’s a fact), nobody can trust it. PAS is just like the Taliban of Afghanistan. Before the corrupt Kabul government was toppled, the Taliban pretended to be very responsive to the people’s problems: they carried out welfare services and seemed to be very transparent and concerned about the ills of Afghanistan. They won the respect of the people.

    Once the corrupt government in Kabul was toppled, the Taliban showed their true colors. They introduced an extremist form of Islam and hell broke loose. What they promised to the people were forgotten, and through the extremist form of Islamic laws they introduced, nobody could question their behaviors and actions. They became gods with the powers to interpret issues according to their whims and fancy: men were not supposed to shave their beards; women were not supposed to go to school or work and had to be attired like walking mummies; boys were not supposed to play football and having fun; people were not supposed to be entertained and had to throw their radios and TVs out of the window; the largest statue of Buddha in the world was dynamited to smithereens because it insulted their sensibilities of faked righteousness.

    So now PAS is trying to tell non-Muslims that hudud will not affect them? Muslims and non-Muslims were told not to question hudud even though they don’t understand its concept? So no questioning will be allowed as more and more areas of social lives fall within the confines and PAS’s interpretations of Islamic laws. All these under the pretense of being democratic? Very dangerous: Trust PAS at your own peril; once it wins ABSOLUTE power you wouldn’t know how things will work out.

    There are two sides to religion; religion can be uplifting or religion can be exploited to do evil. If you don’t believe this explanation, read the Bible or the Koran; both warned of evil men exploiting the scriptures to do their evil deeds.

    Religion by itself is passive until acted upon. How it is being used will determine the good or the evil side of religion. Just like fire; it is useful when it is used to cook food and producing other productive activities, but destructive and immoral when it is used by arsonists to burn down buildings or a religious fanatic to burn a woman at the stake.

  21. “Trust PAS at your own peril; once it wins ABSOLUTE power you wouldn’t know how things will work out.” vsp

    Wouldn’t know how things will work out?? Oh yes. We do know how things will work out. I will never enjoy my Heineken in the open anymore.

  22. All religions can be political – as they are all seen in the light of being God-breathed. It’s when Holy Scripture becomes misunderstood and literal, all Hell breaks loose and it’s professors become unholy demons.

    Faith, unlike superficial ‘Religion’, is intangible and cannot be enforced by mortification of flesh. It changes not, except in degrees of acceptance and understanding. No amount of moral philosophizing and intellectual masturbation, as revealed by ‘hard’ religiosity can detract from that.

    It’s not mere Lunacy, but Earthy rewards that causes The Creator to speak in mortal tones and in a given language. There is but One religion in man’s heart – himself and all his preordained prejudices. Unless Faith is self reflective and self inquisitive – it becomes outward Religion to be imposed on Others. In our short life, it is best that the Inquisition is about Self, not Others.

    Btw, we have quite a few Pharisees running riot here. More often than not, they don’t know it themselves. I’m sure there are Sadducees here too.

  23. Where is your logic my friend? Not to be in agreement with PAS does not mean one is against Hudud.- Isa Manteqi

    Well said !

  24. As far as non Muslims are concerned, PAS is a FRAUD…. cannot be trusted as a political party and SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HOLD THE REINS OF GOVERNMENT AND SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN THE POWER TO CONTROL THE NATION’S RESOURCES/

    PAS is only good at making the poor Malays POORER by forcing Malays to live in the socio-cultural environment of the pre-medieval ages and the life style of the desert people.

    What PAS should recommend for the Malaysian economy is to IMPORT camels to replace our Proton cars.

  25. Non Malays should RESIGN EN BLOC from the PAS Supporters Club.

    Get out NOW from the PAS Supporters Club… I suggest those Kelantanese non Malays who are members of the Pas Supporters Club should start the ball rolling.

    Perhaps, the Chinese in PAS Supporters Club have already decided to STOP GIVING PAS their support.

    Read here PAS Supporters Congress (PSC) chairman Hu Pang Chaw.said PAS risks losing the support of and triggering an exodus from its non-Muslim wing if the Islamist party does not yield on the hudud issue.He said many members were unhappy about PAS’s plans to introduce hudud law in Kelantan and warned this could cause non-Muslims to desert the congress en masse, damaging the party’s chances at the polls.

  26. “What PAS should recommend for the Malaysian economy is to IMPORT camels to replace our Proton cars.” – Frank

    I wouldn’t mind that. I think they are better than our Proton cars. Stronger build too. Come to think of it again, almost anything is better than our Proton cars.

  27. I gave my full support to PAS even before March 2008 believing PAS is the answer to the corruption and cronyism of UMNO, and PAS WITH Islam on its sleeves will bring out a BETTER person out of every Malaysian, Malays and Non Malays.

    No, instead Nik Aziz and his band of turban-wearing wannabe Arabs want Malaysia to go back to the moral values of 1,400 years ago and the cultural values of the camel-riding culture.

    PAS TOTALLY MISLED non Muslims voters and the liberal Muslims in this country.

    PAS has LOST the Moral right to represent ALL Malaysians.

    PAS SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN THE POWER TO CONTROL THE RESOURCES OF THIS BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY simply because PAS will turn Malaysia into a failed state like Zimbabwe with their PRIMITIVE sense of values for Malaysia.

    PAS is ONLY GOOD as a Party for shouting nonsense about Islam.

  28. Mr Bean

    I gave PAS a very wide berth of benefit of the doubt.

    As everybody knows on this blog, I supported PAS at almost every turn and defended PAS strongly.

    Sadly. I was dead wrong.

    It turns out a leopard will NEVER change its spots. PAS will ALWAYS REMAIN a FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC PARTY which REFUSES to LIVE IN THE 21ST CENTURY. And that is a recipe for disaster for Malaysia, politically, and economically, and PAS will be a threat to the RELIGIOUS and RACIAL harmony of Malaysia’s multi racial society.

    As it turns out, all the rhetoric of the PAS leaders are LIES, very UN-Islamic in MISLEADING the Malaysian people, and after giving PAS a sense of POWER in the country, their leaders turn their backs on those who TRUSTED THEM.

  29. I think they are better than our Proton cars.- didi

    Proton cars have improved. Perhaps, you are one of those silly-minded Malaysians who think anything foreign, including camels, is better than made in Malaysia.

  30. I think the following comment from a Malay blogger, who believe is a strong PAS supporter/member, is very pertinent, when he said in his article in Malaysiakini

    “….PAS should not deceive itself into thinking that they (Chinese) have decided to support hudud. Instead, PAS should take the recent controversy as a valuable lesson.

    Personally, it’s a very valuable lesson for myself on the Chinese psyche.

    CONSISTENCY is paramount if you want to win their (Chinese) hearts and minds. If you are an OPPORTUNIST, you can NEVER be secure with the Chinese voter.”
    -Abdul Rahman Abdul Talib

  31. “Men keep on looking down at women, when during the prophet’d time women were equal even at the battle field!” – berukkampung

    You think that problem is only prevalent in the Muslim world? Having been the only girl in my batch in engineering school, I’ve seen how males look down at females. No matter how well I did or how hard I’ve worked, I’ll never be considered their equal. That is in the United States of America. Maybe men in general look at women as the weaker sex??

  32. I’ve seen how males look down at females.- didi

    I think Mr Bean will tell you the REAL REASON why Males look DOWN at Females.It not only happens in the USA. I think it happens in every home.

    Not sure whether it is out of choice or just simply the nature of how things are made to be.

  33. Mr Bean,

    For your information, didi, our female Malaysian now in your neck of the woods prefer camels than Proton cars.

    At least our Kathy in Oz still prefer cars than horses and kangaroos.

    Does Sir Lancelot ride on camels?

  34. I used an old ford taurus that performed better than my proton putra. I might be silly but I’m not blind. I can still differentiate between what’s good and bad. If I think Malaysian manufactured products are bad then I wouldn’t be building my computer using Intel motherboard since it’s made in Malaysia. But Intel is still the best. What a silly old man. Plus it’s ridiculous for you to think that I think Chinese made products are better than Malaysian made.

  35. What’s wrong with camels and horses, frank? You should go for a ride on either of them. It’ll do you good.

  36. Plus it’s ridiculous for you to think that I think Chinese made products are better than Malaysian made.- didi

    Tell me truthfully, if you don’t want me to look DOWN on you (I mean intellectually), that you DON’T have any MADE-IN-CHINA product in your home or the place you live now??

    How many Made-in Malaysia products you have in your house compared to the Made in China.

    Better tell the truth, or less I or Mr Bean would love to look DOWN on YOU.

    I believe Mr Bean hates looking DOWN at MALES, except when absolutely necessary.

  37. What’s wrong with camels and horses, frank?

    Nothing wrong. Except, unlike you, I still prefer cars, even if it is Proton.

    I don’t look DOWN on camels and horses. That would be horrible.

  38. To tell you the truth Frank, you are in no position to look down on me. Which part of “plus it’s ridiculous for you to think that I think Chinese made products are better than Malaysian made” indicates that I’m saying that I don’t own Chinese made products? I said they are of lower quality not that I don’t owned them. Silly, silly.

    Reading comprehension problem today, Frank?

  39. The love between Frank and PAS is a case of unrequited love. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.- Mr Bean

    In hindsight, you are right.

    As I said many times before on this blog, LOYALTY is an unwritten contract.

    Loyalty is NEVER an absolute, whether between party and supporters or between two individuals.

    PAS has failed to live up to its end of the unwritten contract for LOYALTY.

    So, it is time for the non Muslim voters to abandon PAS in droves.

    Better to let the devil you already know to hold the reins of power than the devil (read PAS) you DON’T and you think you know.

  40. Plus, I couldn’t care less if you want to look down on me intellectually. You opinion doesn’t have any bearing in my life. I enjoy reading the articles in this blog and will strive to learn more from them.
    _____________
    Both you and Frank should stick to the issues. Don’t get personal. I value both your comments when they are rational and relevant.–Din Merican

  41. …. and I really hate to say it, PAS MPs like Khalid Samad and those FT PAS MPs and ADUNS who won their seats in March 2008 on the back of non Malays/non Muslim supporters, should start looking for another full time job.

    Urban voters are not easily bought by the stupidity of those turban-wearing PAS leaders trying to force hudud laws into this country.

    This is not an issue that hudud only affects Muslims and non Muslims should butt out..

    It is a case of trying to implement hudud within the existing constitutional framework of this country, the secular nature of this country, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, the HUDUD issue strikes at the heart of the basis upon this country was founded upon in 1957.

    Hudud is important to Muslims and NON Muslims alike who are citizens of this wonderful nation and the beauty of this nation is about to destroyed by the current bunch of turban-wearing fundamentalist Muslim PAS leaders led by Nik Aziz.

  42. I couldn’t care less if you want to look down on me intellectually.- didi

    Given the option, I prefer NOT to look down on you INTELLECTUALLY, because I think you are smart, especially taking Engineering as a female (you implied so). I prefer to LOOK DOWN on you (or at you) on OTHERS ways, opportunities permitting.

  43. Can you explain to me why Frank is acting so bitter like a jilted lover?-didi

    Simple. Had not much of a chance to LOOK DOWN at FEMALES lately.

  44. Bicycles better than camels & horses……try riding a bicycle from Kelantan to come to KL didi, otherwise horses & camels for nearer distances, say from KL to Tanjung Malim to buy delicious Kueh Pau…. . AND on the return trip, please don’t abandon the camel or horse for a Coach-ride back to KL…..

    But you have to reserve three months for your leave to go sight-seeing…..

    One possible scenario, when Hudud takes over the Govt ?

  45. To tell you the truth Frank, you are in no position to look down on me.- didi

    You are right. You are simplly too far away from where I am. Perhaps Mr Bean might have a better chance than me.

  46. I said they are of lower quality not that I don’t owned them. -didi

    Owning LOWER QUALITY PRODUCTS and knowing that for a fact ???

    ..and you say you are an engineering student. I thought most FEMALES have better sense of quality than males.Thus I don’t blame those males in your engineering class who LOOK DOWN on you, as you had bemoaned.

    For me, it does not matter whether you are believer in lower or higher quality of products, given the chance, I would not hesitate to LOOK DOWN on you. Which Male wouldn’t?

  47. If you want to know HOW STUPID NIk Aziz is about wanting to go ahead with Hudud in Kelantan, despite knowing PAS WILL LOSE THE CHINESE VOTES, read what another Muslim Constitutional Lawyer said HERE


    “…Human rights and constitutional lawyer Syahredzan Johan said the barriers set by the Federal Constitution and other legal provisions governing Islamic laws made it IMPOSSIBLE for PAS to make its hudud plan a reality. He said the Syariah Courts (Criminal Jurisdiction) Act 1965 provided limits to the jurisdiction of Syariah Courts in meting out punishment…”


    The ABOVE same point was raised earlier by another lawyer, ART HARUN

    It goes to show that those turban-wearing Islamic fundamentalist PAS leaders don’t care TWO HOOTS about the Federal Constitution.

    Given that, WHY SHOULD MALAYSIANS ALLOW PAS to hold the reins of the Federal Govt when they themselves don’t give a shit to the Federal Constitution… instead they want to amend the Federal Constitution to suit their FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC Agenda for Malaysia.

    No, any decent minded Malaysian MUST SAY NO TO PAS to even touch the keys to Putrajaya

  48. Malaysia is indeed unique, we have democracy and all the laws u can think of and yet we cannot question the laws due to the prevailing control of the judiciary by the present govt so it makes no difference if hudud is implemented . bottom line is who is the govt of the day!

  49. What DAP and PKR should do now is to dissociate themselves from the stupidity of PAS.

    DAP should concentrate on keeping Penang and PKR to keep Selangor.

    In the case of Perak, if DAP and PKR cannot hold on to Perak, so be it. It is up to Nizar what he wants PAS to do in Perak. I don’t thin non Muslims should support PAS in Perak at all

    Just because PAS got 23 seats in Parliament, they got hot air ballooning in their heads. That is the trouble with leaders whose minds are retrograded to 1,400 years ago, and with that kind of mentality, they also want other Malaysians to be retrogressive.

    I say, let PAS go stir in its own Islamic juice.

    Pakatan Rakyat can as well dissolve and each party fends its own political interests. What is the use of having an UNRELIABLE PAS as a partner in Federal Govt??

    It makes every Malaysian look like bloody fools to the rest of the world by having turban wearing Islamic fundamentalist leaders in a secular nation talking about hudud and desert-people’s cultural values of 1,400 years ago and mouthing the desire for Malaysia to be part of the First World nation of the 21st century. It is a JOKE.

  50. Here is one scenario for you if PAS (with DAP and PKR) wins Putrajaya (God forbids) in a Pakatan Rakyat Federal Govt

    (a)Hadi Awang beame Foreign Minister and goes to Washington in a meeting with Foreign Ministers talking about the benefits of Hudud to western civilisation and one way to prevent rape in the western world is they should wear the tudung as Muslim women do in Malaysia.

    (b)Mustafa Ali made Minister of Education: Islamic Studies a compulsory subject for Form Five students taking SPM.
    __________
    Interesting, Frank, interesting indeed. What about Mat Sabu, the PAS authority on Malaysian History? No role for Anwar, Azmin and other PKR and DAP leaders? Looks like PAS wants to take all. God save Malaysia.–Din Merican
    __________
    (c)Nasaruddin Tantawi made Minister of Finance: All Banks operating in Malaysia not allowed to collect interest and only Islamic banking allowed in Malaysia. Foreign banks wanting to operate in Malaysia should abide or they take their banks out.

    (d)Nasaruddin Isa made Minister for Sports: All sports women (muslims and non muslims alike) should wear clothings below the ankle and hands covered and must wear tudung during competition

    National policies of Pakatan Rakyat Govt must be referred to the National Syariah Council (Lim Guan Eng with Observer status only) for clearance.

  51. My take is simple. Allow the Tok Guru space to air his views. I am certain the up and coming PAS leadership, which consists of the young and forward thinking like Nizar, is more than capable of acting and thinking rationally without alluding to hudud and the sharia law whenever countering salvos from Umno or Al Kutty.

    Can hudud or sharia law be enacted without the act of parliament? Umno knows this too well and is just playing to the gallery to put PAS in a bad light. Don’t ever fall for its dirty tricks.

  52. Religious leaders always think they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. Hudud is an ancient archaic Arabic law or tradition or culture suitable for Arab society.There was a report of a 10 year young girl being sold by her father to a 30 year old Yemeni man. This young girl was still playing with toy and not yet matured. Do we want to follow this Arab culture???

    Religion had committed atrocities. An Iranian in KL told me Arabs during the cnquest & Imperialism led by Caliph Abu Bakar, Omar, Othman, Ali, Khalid Walid (Sword of All) had killed millions of Iranians, Afghans, Tajiks, Azerbyjans etc. The Iranian asked, “Is that the way to spread religion?”

    Religions are NOT exempt scrutiny, examination, criticism. In fact religions that had committed atrocities & brutalities should be brought to Justice.I believe in God, but I don’t believe in religions.

  53. There is a diversity of views on Hudud here. Keep it that way. Whatever is being considered should be for the benefit of our plural society. PAS knows it cannot impose its will on the rest of us. The last thing we need is a bunch of religious mullahs treating us like a group of mules. No way as far as I concerned. I hope my PAS friends know where I am coming from. I am a Muslim who reads the Quran and performs his religious duties to the best of his ability and who can think for himself. Saya ada akal dan boleh membaca dan berfikir.–Din Merican

  54. Didi is female?? In that case I must come to the aid of my old friend, Frank. It is not looking down but Frank wants Didi to come down on him. He just doesn’t know how to put it. Down, up and every which way.
    _________
    Mongkut Bean, I have to ask you a question. How relevant is your comment is to this topic? If you can’t answer, I will delete this comment shortly. You can’t even hide your male chauvinist hang-up.–Din Merican

  55. If you don’t believe in religion, call yourself an atheist.

    Tell me where is God OUTSIDE RELIGIONS???

    Here is one God I think you believe in: ELECTRICITY or Laws of Physics.

  56. PAS must refine its reading of the current political situation. They will find it difficult to find a Malaysian who wants to live in a country where the evidence of a women is only worth 25% of that of a Man. We have come too far. It would be akin to Socialist asking the citizens to drive their cars into the sea when they come into power..

  57. The issue here is not Hudud… it is PAS.

    Malaysians had already decided via its Federal Constitution what they wanted when the nation was founded in 1957. A secular nation with Islam as “religion of the Federation”.. but other religions may be practised in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation

    Note carefully: The Constitution NEVER states Islam is the OFFICIAL RELIGION of the country.

    Secondly, The constitution was already amended to accommodate the requirements of Syariah laws empowered to the State BUT with limitations with regard to offences deemed CRIMINAL. In other words, offences under Hudud (except for adultery) are already covered in the Constitution eg murder etc and also allowed Syariah courts to punish Muslim offenders but within the bounds of the law of the land.

    Federal Law had already allowed punishment under Syariah law and placed limits on criminal offences since criminal law is directly under FEDERAL LAW.

    Syariah law is subservient Federal Law and that is how the Federal Constitution is made up, whatever Islam or any other religion says about their own laws.

    The issue of PAS forcing HUDUD into the nation is therefore uncalled for except for the purpose of PAS wanting to exploit the political/religious divisions in the country. If the Kutty Supremo had baited PAS into the Hudud issue, then it it is the sheer stupidity of Nik Aziz to be caught in the bait.

    If Malaysians had decided in 1957 that Malaysia was founded under Islamic Constitution, or if that Syariah law and hudud take precedence over secular laws (as that we have now), then there is no debate here.

    Suddenly after 50 years, PAS, with an arrogance of 23 seats in Federal Parliament now wants to amend the Constitution to suit their fundamentalist Islamic agenda.

    Say what you like about UMNO, at least when they had 2/3rd majority in Parliament for decades, did NOT seek to amend the Constitution to appease the Muslim radicals, extremists and fundamentalists within UMNO or outside UMNO.

    Now we have PAS which want a 2/3rd Majority to implement Hudud…

    Malaysians MUST not give into RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS in PAS to fool around with the Federal Constitution ESPECIALLY on RELIGIOUS MATTERS.

    For the reason, PAS must not be give the power to control the resources of the nation and should therefore not allowed to touch the keys to Putrajaya.

    It confirms the thinking of many that PAS is not bloody interested in the economic development of the country, but more interested to deepen the fundamentalism of Islam into the social fabric of this mult-religious and multi-racial country.

    Malaysians must say NO to PAS’s Islamic Fundamentalist and Extremist agenda for the country.

    Malaysia of the 21st century is too precious for the sickening religious politics of the turban-wearing PAS fundamentalist leaders

  58. If you really know Allah and understand at heart….- pujanga

    Crap!! YOU know ALLAH???? How? By reading a book written some 1,400 years ago for the camel-riding desert people based on myths and fairy tales from an earlier Jewish book???

    I have yet to meet an idiot who knows God/Allah…. I would certainly interview that person, even if he is a born idiot who says he knows Allah/God.

  59. Article 121

    (1A) The courts referred to in Clause (1) shall have no jurisdiction in respect of any matter within the jurisdiction of the Syariah courts.

    This is not envisaged by the Reid Commission when drafting the Federal Constitutional. Because this amendment ousts the jurisdiction of our civil law courts. It creates a double tracked system of justice where none existed before. And according to some constitutional scholars is ultra vires the Federal Constitution 1957. It goes against the doctrine of double jeopardy as a Muslim can be prosecuted under both laws i.e. civil law and syariah law – and dilutes Article 8(1).

  60. Mr Bean

    The amendment was done not in the national interest but in the interest of MALAY /Muslim POLITICS.

    Malays had been too trusting of UMNO, and that is why there is NO hue and cry about this amendment and the Malays had this weird thinking, “Islam is more important than themselves”… and that is why Muslims do not blink an eye when THEY, just because they are muslims, can allow themselves to be prosecuted under BOTH Laws.

    Double jeopardy?? Those PAS supporters, including educated ones, got no clue. They might think it is a TV Quiz Show imported from USA.

  61. Or worse. Kathy might think she has an open invitation to ride both horse (read: Sir Lancelot) and camel. The bloghost might ask why the preoccupation with horse and camel? Well, civil law based on the English common law is the horse and syariah law is the camel. To expect poor Kathy to ride both is taxing.

  62. Mr Bean

    Leave Kathy alone.

    The one interested in riding a horse and camel is “didi’ – that smart Malaysian FEMALE doing Engineering in the US who hates Males LOOKING DOWN on her. Funny, I would have thought it is a compliment.

  63. Both you and Frank should stick to the issues- Dato Din

    I tried very hard. I really do. But didi keeps on distracting me her “LOOKING DOWN” complaints and justifying it is OK to “own LOW quality foreign products” over an above better quality made-in-Malaysia products.

  64. What about Mat Sabu, the PAS authority on Malaysian History? No role for Anwar, Azmin and other PKR and DAP leaders?- Dato Din

    The rest given un-important roles. DAP and PKR (too weak) allowed PAS to run the country because PAS feels it can take on UMNO in opposition.

    Anwar? The poor chap is in jail. The judiciary is still controlled by UMNO and they wouldn’t let him out.

    Mat Sabu? Minister of Higher Education…. PAS wants him to further disgrace the National Council of Kangkung Professors and to de-UMNO-nise all the public universities. His job is to flush out those pro-UMNO kangkung professors and force them to quit their academic positions.

    Azmin? Minister for East Malaysia Affairs (so that he is not a pain in the ass for PAS in the Peninsular. Too many Christians in East Malaysia for PAS worry about. Azmin is to cash out UMNO’s fix deposit in Sabah and Sarawak and to bribe as many of Sabahans and Sarawakians vote for PKR and DAP. Key task for Azmin is to deport those UMNO-citizens back to Indonesia and Philippines).

    Karpal Singh – retired

    Tony Pua – Minister for Non-Muslim Affairs ( to quieten those loud-mouth Christians about hudud and Syariah laws)

    Lim Kit Siang – retired and de facto adviser to CM Penang

    Khalid Samad – Minister in PM Dept ( so PAS can keep a close watch on hhim)

    Hasan Ali – Deputy Prime Minister cum Minister for Islamic Affairs

  65. Din,
    Why do I have a terrible headache when reading comments such as these? Remind me of this episode from Yes Prime Minister. It seems that not just politicians but even people are suffering from association fallacy.
    So said Sir Arnold…….Politicians suffered from politican logics. My dogs have four legs, my cats have legs…..Sir Humphery quiped…..My dog is a cat

    Oh come! People are so preoccupied with what might happen next. When PAS does not remotely have the chance of ruling on its own. Might not be able to garner 2/3 majority.Though I agree that it is extremely important to sort it out. But unfortunately, one need to focus on the most important thing…..Get rid of BN…..Revamp/Reform the system that have gone to decay

    If LKY & the gang are so particularly of the leftist branch of PAP, you would not have Singapore as of now. Even though it’s entering the “New Normal”

    Din,
    I watched “Revolution 1911″ lately. I realised that there are so many compatriots from malaya & singapore martyred when they launched unsuccessful attempt of gunning down the Governor of Guangdong-Guanxi.
    I have also watched the last episode of “Towards the Republic”. Sun Yat Sen has made a very powerful statement that’s still logical even till today. Come to think of it, you should have a writeup on Xinhai Revolution as China (PRC & ROC) are celebrating 100 years of overthrowing of Qing Empire & Setting up of The First Republic.
    I like the portion that Sun Yat Sen wanted to have five branches instead of 3.

    1) Executive
    2) Judiciary
    3) Legislative
    4) Examination
    5) Impeachment

    Basically, return the Power back to People…….Aaargh….What a headache, having too many such discourse nowadays…..

    Din,
    That doesn’t mean I am against having such discourse of “Right of Questioning the Hudud. Hehehe, judging from my comment, I am definitely a secularist

    Guys,
    For those especially rightway who understands mandarin. The finale

  66. You see what Dato’ has given here that no Government in M’sia or self proclaimed “religous” “pious” people out there would. A discourse and open debate. It hasnt killed anyone yet has it? We are all deciding our future arent we. Having a great debate which is so lacking in M’sia. people are just fed BS and asked to vote ALL in the name of Allah. Poor God ,He gets the blame for all oppressive interpretations by Man who can be lowe r than the Beasts ( Al Qur’an).
    Mind you has anyone been struck by lightning for daring to question or openly debate what affect us on earth yet? Well this is the indoctrination we have to endure by those who have an agenda, they say, “We cant question anything!. Little do they understand that my Soul is my responsibility , not theirs and vice versa. So I say, debate on. Its healthy.

  67. Remind me of this episode from Yes Prime Minister.- looes74

    Ahhh! yet again… the world of TV fiction transposed into the realpolitik of the day and the silly Chinese history of total irrelevance to Malay politics.

    No PAP and LKY this time? Oh yes there is still that reference to LKY…. the God-like adoration of the “banana” of the Chinese in Singapore

  68. Frank,
    Do you know what sort of game PAS is playing right now? The number game. Just like what CCP is playing right now, waiting to take back Taiwan.

    Uncle Frank,
    Number game! Unless Din, Azmi & liberal malays can garner enough numbers. If not, all would be lost. LKY knew taht he can’t run Singapore with the help of the leftist
    The only to really frighten some mullahs in PAS as well as Anemo folks, it’s number. Hence, I strongly suggest Din to write up on Xinhai revolution & relevant topics. Even Nik Aziz knew it.

    Frank,
    Nigel Hawthorne & Paul Eddington were given knighthoods over this performance. Maggie Thatcher would whack you with her handbag if you ridicule these episodes. Not to mention India has turned into their own version of “Yes Ministers/Prime Ministers” They called it Ji Mantriji!

    Din,
    Well, if ever PAS really comes into power, they got to deal with the ever powderful civil service. Courtesy of Great Britain.
    If the powderful chief secretary can play trick with the appointment of Khusrin in Selangor. What say about introducing Hudud?
    Aiyaa, stick to one thing at a time

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOvEwtDycs

  69. But unfortunately, one need to focus on the most important thing…..Get rid of BN….- looes74

    You mean getting rid of BN and put in place the turban-wearing Islamic extremist and fundamentalist PAS leaders who think Hudud is MORE important than the economy of the country??

    That is like asking Malaysians to jump out of the frying pan into the fire!!

  70. Frank,
    You really think PAS would ever hold the majority. Let alone 2/3 majority. Forget about fear mongering from Kaytee suk. Of course, we must have debates. Let bring some of these mullahs up into open. And also always remember top echelon of civil service would be nearby frustating every move especially those coming from PAS.
    They call it “Creative Inertia”

  71. Frank,
    Islamisation has begun even without PAS in it. Thanks to that apanama. You can always blame Anwar Ibrahim on it. Where were you guys? Aiyaaa…..

  72. Islamisation has begun even without PAS in it- looes74

    But then Federal Constitution is left alone. Now those turban-wearing extremist PAS leaders want to CHANGE the CONSTITUTION to implement hudud.

    Creeping Islamisation has taken place in Malaysian society, undoubtedly… look at the replacement of songkok with the kopiah and 95% of Muslim wearing tudung… which has become a fashion.

    Federal Constitution is untouch on the issue of hudud.. The Constitution was amended to allow states to legislate on syariah law with CLEAR limitations… and that is more important than having a bunch of Arabised Muslims in PAS trying to change the Federal Constitution to have HUDUD in its totality to suit their fundamentalist version of Islam.

  73. looes74

    Whatever numbers game PAS is playing… the fact remains they want to change the Constitution to implement Hudud..

    AND THAT IS A NO-NO.

    PAS has lost its moral right to govern ALL Malaysians and that means it has forfeited itself to be a PARTY for all Malaysians.

    You don’t what stupid turban wearing Ministers mouthing hudud representing you on the international stage, do you?

  74. Frank, just behave yourself. Like always when you don’t agree with anything you’ll insult everyone. If you are so good why don’t you give Najib or Nik Aziz a run for their money. You are no better than the people you insulted. I’ll give you a year or two in a position of power and you’ll be a fascist. Just look at all your comments. It’s either lewd, full of insults or indicates that you are suffering from PMS.

  75. “In the end we all have to face divine justice. While on earth, we are duty bound to govern ourselves with laws which respect our fundamental rights via the Rule of Law. It is that simple. I for one will never allow a politician to preach his interpretation of the law. While I respect Nik Aziz’s religiosity, I have my own mind about a lot of things. I can think and reason and have a conscience”.–Din Merican

    Din, we are here on earth not because the involuntary nature’s law, we are here residing on this planet earth which belong to Allah because of His mercy, and with this mercy He bestowed hidayah to whom He chooses. We human are His slaves and the only reason He created us is to obey His order. Islam recognizes all rights be it human or other beings. Fundamerntal human rights have never been systematically organized before islam came with divine set of rule. Look at the jahiliyah and those people during previous prophets before Mohamad SAW, what Rule of Law have they preached? Islam came with perfect and organized rule of law from the Creator. Islam give us right to reason, question and answer so long it falls along the guidance from Quran and hadists. People the like of TGNA is an islamic scholar who has the responsibility as a leader to guide us. As all his references are from Quran and hadists can we argue if we can’t even understand at heart the kalimah “Bismillah”? Its true that every sane human being is capable of reasoning and argue based on his or her consciences but as far as islam is concerned if you failed to argue based on Quran and hadists you are totally out of bound because you are remotely guided by syaitan laknatullah. Nauzubillah

    Wabillahit taufik walhidayah

  76. We can debate about this and maybe have a vote. If Malaysians are not in favor of PAS then vote them out. Your vote, your choice. What say you about that Frank? Or you are uncomfortable that some people might have differing opinion from yours?

  77. Frank, just behave yourself. – didi

    With you, I don’t insult. I just want to LOOK DOWN on you.

    If you let me LOOK DOWN on you, my PMS will be fully cured

    Others, yes I will insult them if they post idiotic comments.

    But you are a smart female, and I don’t insult smart females, I just want to LOOK DOWN on them. Is that a crime?

  78. “…we are here on earth not because the involuntary nature’s law, we are here residing on this planet earth which belong to Allah because of His mercy, and with this mercy He bestowed hidayah to whom He chooses.” -pujanga

    Where did you get that silly idea from?

    Mercy?

    God/Allah must be bad for allowing tsunami 2004 to happen killing innocent women and children (including muslims), Tsunami earthquake and tsunami in Japan killing innocent women and children, the unforgiving drought in Somalia killing poor women, children and men.

    Or these innocent lives, for no fault of their own, are dispensable by God/Allah out of His Mercy? Give me a break, please.

  79. We can debate about this and maybe have a vote.- didi

    Didi,

    Yes, let us have a vote. I vote that Males be allowed to LOOK DOWN AT smart FEMALES, and PAS is justified to say so. Now your turn.

  80. Dato’, je suis désolée pour mes messages. J’ai dit que EN GÉNÉRAL les hommes regardent aux femmes comme le sexe faible. C’est vrai, n’est-ce pas? Mais Frank a décidé de m’insulter. Je pourrais être jeune mais je ne suis pas stupide. Si il deteste la religion pourquoi faut-il insulter les religions des autres? Il peut penser qu’il est intelligent mais je trouve sa messages de mauvais goût.

  81. you want to know God, Frank?..provided you are brave enough to discover God!

    here’s my suggestion: jump out from the balcony of kl tower…on the way down request help from God wholeheartedly…and you will land safely on the ground god-willing….by whatever means.

    However if you perished…you will meet God anyway.

  82. I’m not entertaining you on this anymore, Frank. Act your age. I heard you have grandchildren haven’t you? Shame. You want to pick on 20-year olds go ahead. You can look down however you want at anyone and I JUST DON’T CARE.

  83. guano,

    Don’t waste your time convincing Frank about God. Don’t give him ammunition to start firing on other people’s religions.

    See Frank, I’m respecting your right to be an atheist. You can look up to me now.

  84. You can look down…You can look up to me now.- didi

    I know you are smart… and smart people are negotiable.

    So, with your permission, I will LOOK DOWN first and then look UP.

    Sorry, I didn’t know you are 20 year old. I thought you are in the same age group as Mr Bean.

  85. you want to know God, Frank?- guano

    No I don’t want to know God. Firstly, nobody can prove He/She/It exists in the first place.

    I just want to meet any idiot who says he/she knows God/Allah.

    Well, if YOU and those believers of God who want to know God/Allah, be in embrace and actually look after you, you and the rest can do two things:

    a) If you are sick, don’t go to hospital to be treated

    b) Try to live shorter lives… take life endangering activities

    You see, any 10 year old kid will tell you that you have to die first, before you have any chance of meeting your God.

    The most effective way to know God is to Meet Him. So those people who keep on praying wanting to be with Allah/God, they know what they must do first to KNOW God.

  86. Dato’, je suis désolée pour mes messages.-didi

    What?? Coded message of love with the bloghost. I am jealous.

  87. Mais Frank a décidé de m’insulter. Je pourrais être jeune mais je ne suis pas stupide.- didi

    ma chère fille, I did not insult you and I did not say you are stupid. I said you are smart, by the way.

    Write in Malay so that people like Tean the Monk can also understand you.

  88. If you are so good why don’t you give Najib or Nik Aziz a run for their money. – didi

    No thank you.

    Not with Nik Aziz, because he might put a fatwa on my head

    Not with Najib, because Rosmah might hit me in the face with her RM72 million ring (rumour she kept the original and sent back to the US the fake version).

    I don’t like to LOOK DOWN at these two Males

  89. It’s either lewd, full of insults or indicates that you are suffering from PMS.
    - didi

    I thought I was the one writing that kind of comment well suited for Mr Bean!!!

    If you really meant that for me, I take it as a compliment.

  90. Nigel Hawthorne & Paul Eddington were given knighthoods over this performance.- looes74

    No big deal. Even Clif Richard was given a knighthood for singing “Bachelor Boy” and “Goodbye Sam, Hello Samantha”.

  91. berukampung – October 9, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Excellent point there. All who claim to be muslim must find out what hijab (veil) means and applies to more importantly. The “moslems’ always simplify everything and applies literal meanings to everything because they are lazy to find out their Koran and so a few will dominate and tell them things and they believe. Are we so sure God meant veil for the head or that we humans are veiled and more importantly if we are veiled , what from?

  92. ”here’s my suggestion: jump out from the balcony of kl tower…on the way down request help from God wholeheartedly…and you will land safely on the ground god-willing….by whatever means.” -guano

    guano is bird shit. do you work for the MACC also?!

    Hudud was hauled out of deep freeze by umno/bn to destabilise PR and it looks like they have succeeded.
    my question is, why do we need Hudud in the first place? Has our system of law failed? have the police and other law enforcers become inefficient?
    have our muslim brothers and sisters become toooo criminal that you have to bring in some brutal law system to save them?

  93. have our muslim brothers and sisters become toooo criminal that you have to bring in some brutal law system to save them?- reeperbahn

    Perhaps PAS wants them to be masochistic.

  94. Mr Bean.

    McDonalds Burger bin the Islamic Paradise? Does it come with fries? and a medium coke. I can get anything in Paradise if I want it.

    What if I suddenly crave for pork for some reason in Paradise? Will I get a NO for an answer from God/Allah?

  95. have our muslim brothers and sisters become toooo criminal that you have to bring in some brutal law system to save them?- reeperbahn

    Yes the civil laws are broken and failed and only punish the opposition. So bring in Hudud laws so the UMNO criminals can face punishment too.

  96. So bring in Hudud laws so the UMNO criminals can face punishment too.- webelos

    You mean you expect those turban-wearing fundamentalist PAS leaders to catch UMNO criminals with hudud?? Are you serious?

    These guys have friends in the Malaysian judiciary. Next thing you know, these turban-wearing PAS fundamentalists will find themselves in courts instead for criminal breach of trust, libel, and misdemeanours, and if unlucky, for statutory rape.

  97. Frank,
    Have you read my link about selangor royalty? You don’t need PAS to screw things up. UMNO has been screwing us from the beginning. Now, they bring in the Sultan.

    Din,
    Like it or not. I disagrees with sultan’s action. I don’t care if he’s the head of religion for Islam for the state of selangor. He has no bloody right.

    Frank,
    It’s not just PAS you up to…..The entire system…..Hence, why I brought up Sun Yat Sen’s ideal? The melayus here needed a Sun Yat Sen…..

    Din,
    Isn’t that Apanama ask the melayus to be a Melayu Baru?

  98. Rightway,
    It’s time to introduce the Great Sun Yat Sen to everybody here. Even Communist in China also in need of his ideals. Watch Xinhai revolution lately

  99. Religion should not be messed up with politics and race! Religion is private whereas politics is public!-rightways

    ..but in Islam religion is a way of life..it governs every spectrum of us..vis-a-vis economy,politic,social,education,business,law etc…hence the islamic bank, islamic law ( not bias to hudud), islamic university, islamic court , islamic hospital etc ..however with due respect never heard about christian bank or jews court though or vice-versa.

  100. guano,
    Then stick it to your own private life. But anyway, I won’t fall for apanama trick to vote out PR. Najib/UMNO/BN must be mampus first

  101. looes74,
    ..however I reserved my comment about the bureaucrats and the ruling party..
    remember..’beware of the sleeping giant’ they may woke up from their 2008 sleep though and gave PR a bashing!..or perhaps ‘ a wounded tiger (from the 2008 injuries)will kill its prey(PR) in silence.

  102. “beware of the sleeping giant”

    Ha ha. This giant may wake up and realize that it is time to spring clean the country to completely rid the system of all the dirt and to scrap under the carpets and rock the very foundation as well. Why only attack the dirt, hapuskan ALL the PARASITES as well.

    It is time to organize the cleaners and make sure that they are fully equipped because a giant vacuum cleaner is going to be needed to carry out all this serious cleaning.

    This Hudud nonsense is like a mosquito employed by the devil to annoy and distract the victim from the actual pain he is suffering to make him feel better. The patient is actually suffering from terminal cancer and momentarily, he is only concerned in getting rid of the irritating pest and hence, forgets that he has a more dire situation to address.

  103. It’s time to introduce the Great Sun Yat Sen to everybody here- looes74

    That’s introducing sino-centric nonsense into Malaysian politics of today.

  104. Frank,
    Why not? It’s definitely not sino centric! This is the real democracy! Do you know how many of the 72 matryr in Guanzhou 2nd uprising? 20 over malayan/singaporeans.
    Come to think of it! What the hell! Since you dare to challenge Nik Aziz over hudud, I will initiate Sun yat Sen idealism in Malaysia. Frankly, even Hishamunddin Rais would agree with me.
    Selangor Sultan has made an unforgivable statement! He has given JAIS a license to “kill”.

    Frank,
    Why so bloody quiet over it? HIS stick is bigger, isn’t it. Since you wanna play big, by all means, play big. If you don’t know chinese, shame on you! Wanna call me racist, by all means.
    Curious! why still now Din doesn’t write about Sun Yat Sen? Why write about Thailand? Xinhai revolution is far more important! More meaningful. If even Anwar knew about it, he would rather associate himself with Sun Yat Sen
    For your viewing pleasure……Rightway, this is where I have different stand than you. Me believe in the real Sun Yat Sen’s stand. 三民主义

  105. Din,
    Sorry! I have yet to find the english version of sun yat sen. However, one can’t deny the effect of sun yat sen towards malaya. You might think it’s just chinese. Wrong! It’s about real revolution. A person who rival even Mahatma Gandhi.
    On the 10th Oct, 1911, Xinhai Revolution commences brought to the end of Qing Empire. This is one strong warning to that Selangor Sultan. Always remember your mandate was given by your rakyat. That includes all the christians. Plus, don’t ever mess with God’s people.

    Frank,
    Nik Aziz aiyaa……I would direct at Apanama……Don’t mess with christian. Even Communist China have to respect a christian, Sun Yat Sen…….

    Rightway,
    Agree? Sun Yat Sen is greater than your Mao Tze Tung

  106. Right, looes74, it’s time to introduce the Great Sun Yat Sen to everybody here.

    Sun Yat Sen’s 三民主义 is 3 principles of democracy. Dr. Sun Yat Sen’s Xinhai revolution 1911 became Father of modern China consistently accepted by PRC & ROC and those who uphold democracy.

    Frank is Chinese illiterate and Chinese ignorance as he has to rely on the advices of colonial masters similar to the British who treated our Malay rulers like toys and pets before.

  107. Dr. Sun Yat Sen’s Xinhai revolution 1911 not only has great impacts to China but also to the world. Peace loving Malaysians and people of the world must know the truths of their history and how China’s peaceful rise as against wars and military conquers like the colonization and domination by the West.

  108. Sun Yat Sen’s 三民主义 is 3 principles of democracy- rightways

    rightwats = sino-centric idiot dishing out silly Chinese crap to every problem in the world. A sino-centric fool with a brain of a blind bat

  109. correction

    rightways = a typical sino-centric idiot dishing out silly Chinese crap to every problem in the world. A sino-centric fool with a brain of a blind bat

  110. Do you know how many of the 72 matryr in Guanzhou 2nd uprising? – looes74

    No. I will wait for the movie about this to be acted by Donnie Yen and see how many hundreds of fully armed solders Donnie Yen will kill with his bare hands.

  111. I will initiate Sun yat Sen idealism in Malaysia. – looes74

    Go ahead… Ibrahim Ali might decide to bring in Mao Zedong’s idealism to challenge you.

  112. However, one can’t deny the effect of sun yat sen towards malaya .. A person who rival even Mahatma Gandhi.- looes74

    Sun yat-sen – a new chinese god to be introduced into Chinese Malaysian homes and put on the same alter with the other chinese gods, God of War, Kitchen God, Kuan Yin, etc.

    Silly sino-centric nonsense!

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