A respected muslim woman comments on yoga fatwa


posted by din merican in Alor Setar, Kedah—november 23, 2008

I am shocked, aghast and dismayed at the fatwa on Yoga and the dressing of not so feminine clothes. What will they think of next? It seems to me these people have nothing better to do. Their posts are redundant and they have to do something to attract attention. Unfortunately the attention they attract is very negative and further destroys the liberal image of Islam Hadhari which the Prime Minister had tried to portray.

I have been practicing yoga since I was young and have never become a “lesbian” or joined the Hindu religion as alleged by these ignoramus! What an insult to Muslims and particularly women. Insulting women and belittling them seems to be the main target of these men! Stop it before people start calling you MORONS!

There are more important issues to focus and worry about such as the killing of innocent civilians, women and children under the false guise of ‘jihad’  The killing of innocent women who have been raped. Instead of punishing the rapists, the poor innocent victim is put to death for the ‘shame’.

This is not ISLAMIC! Islam stopped the killing of innocent female infants! Read the Quran and know its meaning properly. Study what is the SUNNAH – THE WAY OF LIFE OF THE PROPHET ad follow it! Any level thinking person will know that they are way off track. No wonder the International media too has been has such a negative view of ISLAM by headlines such as ‘Muslim terrorists’ and the like. How is that we never see headlines like ‘Christian terrorists’? As such they blame every negative incident on Islam whereas it is these ignorant and not so well informed people who are further enhancing the true meaning and purpose of Islam.

Stop it now before it is too late! JAKIM should be shut down immediately and safe good public funds which could be put to better use to assist the poor and needy. There are enough ‘Muslim’ organizations already looking after the Muslim interests without them messing it up and making more Muslims particularly women angrier. When the women march there will be no stopping them!

Hajjah Marina Yusoff
A Muslim Malay woman who loves her religion

Note: I personally like to know what the NGO, Sisters in Islam, has to say on this issue. Will all the so-called liberated and intelligent Muslim women in Kuala Lumpur speak up on this issue. Well, I think this fatwa is politically motivated and damaging to the image of our country. —Din Merican

103 thoughts on “A respected muslim woman comments on yoga fatwa

  1. Will they now also ban taichi and qigong ? I can hardly see the difference. If Yoga has been banned then they should start looking at the other two. Before long, the Muslim’s in this country will be so cut out from the rest of the world that we will be “katak bawah tempurung” maybe most of us are already living under the tempurung.

    I am not sure now who is the real enemy of the Muslims – external influences as defined by them or so called ulamaks who deemed Yoga is wrong but corruption, money poltics, abuse of power, detention with no trial and “mengharamkan yang halal” is right.I dont think these ulamaks have the moral authority over Muslims. They are being paid monthly salaries so as to keep their mouth shut or the real issues facing Muslims in this country.

    Banning Yoga means depriving Muslims from its benefits. The council’s feeling that Yoga can threatened the faith of Muslim practitioners only reflects their level of confidence in their own faith. They should not drag the other Muslims into it.

  2. Yes, true loving Islam friends. Learn to distinguished what’s real and what’s not. Until and unless my bros and sis learns the true value of being liberated, I shall not be free too, simply because we are all in ONE Bangsa Rakyat. We are not talking about becoming God ourself, like those ‘earthly Gods pretender’ trying to project, we simply want to be a normal peaceful, healthy, knowlegable, progressive citizens. So,stop all the bondages that paralysed the growth of my Malay Islamic friends.

    All you so claimed to be champions of Islam groups. Show your true conscience now. What you stand for, and how do you earn your livelihood?, based on what humans priciples? Islam is a tolerant, forgiving, and loving religion, questions is, are the so called “God like authority” demonstarting that to their own malay ppl? or just the opposite? Every other day, instead of helping or encouraging the Islam friends to explore new ventures and new ways of doing things they are instead reminded to stay ‘retard’ Can’t do this, can’t do that.

    How can not one be confused what Islamic is all about?
    Instead of building and shining bright light on Islam religion, these ppl are just tearing down and casting a darker blankets over it. What a shame indeed. My Islamic friends deserved much better than this. I pray and hope that one day, you all will be liberated and with truth, God will look down and smile along with you.

  3. Heh! Heh! Heh! Din. In my Rat Race series, I have identified one of the Ruling Class’s technique of mass control – Keep them stupid. Unfortunately, for UMNO, it can’t work now. The Malays have woken up. But you can’t fault them for trying. After all, it has worked successfully for the past 60 years (since 1948) and we know that men are creatures of habit.

    I think the solution is to send these bunch of clowns to Afghanistan and let the Taliban sort them out.

  4. pywong,

    Ha ! ha ! They will try to ban Taliban too. They only have one word in their vocabulary – BAN. Actually they are banning God from themselves with this kind of behavior.

  5. Bunch of morons.Maybe, they should also ban Muslims from using the cars and planes, these are Kafir’s invention.Go back to riding the camels or in Malaysia maybe ride the buffaloes.

    I can’t believe this is happening to this country and a government desperately trying to please the Muslims/Malays allow such ridiculous fatwa to be passed.

  6. “Stop it before people start calling you MORONS!”

    My dear, these kind of people including the umno heads are already morons in our eyes a long time ago.

    What next! All religious shrines, temples, churches have to be demolished because they will influence the muslims and attract them like magnet to these unholy premises.

    Its really getting from bad to worse, these so call religious fanatic morons.

  7. Will those Asshats ban and say duit/money is haram? They never know where those duit/money comes from – the Christian hearts to Church donation box, the Hindu and Buddhist hearts their temples’ fund and now used to purchase goods from Muslim businesses? Tak haram eh?

    What a whole bunch of idiots of this UMNO culture that makes Malaysia the laughing stock of the world! Are those BN MPs still able to tolerate this further? PLEASE DO SOMETHING, JUST CROSS OVER TO PAKATAN RAKYAT NOW!

  8. Yoga Meditation is Fundamental Yet Leads Towards Most Advance Human Achievement
    INDIA IS CRADLE OF KNOWLEDGE FOR MAN KIND
    Written with un-conditional compassionate and love for man kinds especially looking at what happen for Malaysian Muslim friends.
    I think now JAKIM need to have open meeting with Yoga expertise, Medical Experts and openly declare that Yoga is Pure Sciences. Conditional the training should be without mantras, deity photos and rituals. Then all will find save, not shame and without inferiority practicing yoga.

    Hi JAKIM why you wearing pans & shirt especially Coat Suites is design by Christian which the TIE is actually look like Cross +. Please fatwa tie wearing!

    THE TRUTH IS ONLY ONE MAN PRESENT DIFFERENTLY

    ISLAM BORROWED ALL FROM HINDUISM (Few to list)
    Arabic under physicians such as Avicenna and Razi Sempion both whom quoted Indian Ayurvedic text, established Islamic medicine.

    It is interesting to compare the symbolism of Prophet Muhammad’s nighttime ascent to Heaven,
    al-Mi‘râj, with the corresponding symbolism in yoga. The Prophet ascended on al-Burâq, a riding beast with the head of a woman, through the seven heavens to the Throne of God. In yoga, the kuNDalinî is a feminine power (sakti) that dwells at the base of the spine and ascends through seven levels (represented by the seven cakras) to the summit of liberation (brahmarandhra).

    It goes without saying that both Islam and yoga require basic physical and moral cleanliness and purity (tahârah, sauca) before performing their practices. The two differ in several respects, but one feature that is common to both is using water to rinse the breathing passages: a yoga kriya (cleansing practice) called jala neti consists of pouring water into one nostril so that it flows through the sinuses and out the other nostril. The Muslim when making wudû’ takes water up the nose and blows it out; this is called istinshâ’.

    Again, the Islamic version does not go as deep,
    being simplified to make it easily accessible to everyone.

    The list can go on……

    SO I WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE A VERY LOVELY STATEMENT NEXT JAKIM WILL MOST LIKELY HAVE TO IMPOSE FATWA BAN ON THE FOLLOWING BECAUSE IT HAS INVENTED FROM INDIAN YOGIS/SIDDHAR/SAGES:
    1. All Muslim should not use number ‘0’ this is originated philosophy of Suniyam (Nothingness). There is indirect approach to accept the truth of universal creation. It may not suitable for Muslim.
    2. Muslim shouldn’t practice NLP
    3. Muslim shouldn’t use ‘pi’ formula.
    4. Muslim shouldn’t use ‘Chess Game’.
    5. Muslim shouldn’t use Arithmetic and Geometric maths formulas.
    6. Muslim shouldn’t use medical knowledge and cannot be doctor. Because the entire human’s endocrine gland system well known and documented perfectly by Indian philosophy in various Vedas, which yet not discover into final detail by modern scientist.
    7. Muslim shouldn’t use curry to cook.
    8. Muslim shouldn’t cook/eat toosai, because it shapes like starting of ‘AUM’
    9. Muslim shouldn’t R&D anything because everything link to ATOM=ANU which first founded and introduce by Indian Veda.
    10. Everything copied/duplicated required modification and reducing it to hide the original. Its happen to all including to languages which copied from Tamil which only language have oldest and un-destroyed Literature/Dictionary in the world.
    11. Muslim shouldn’t use / do anything.

    I highly suggest and urge JAKIM will FATWA:
    1. Fatwa ban on all sports which remove skurfs (TUDUNG)
    2. Fatwa ban on women/girls who take part sports which only wearing swim suite & underwear (gymnastic/quash/badminton/volley ball/etc).
    3. Fatwa ban on women who wear shorts like Badminton.
    4. Fatwa ban facebook for Muslim who expose photos to public.
    5. Fatwa ban for medical student who have expose and explorer both sex human body.
    6. Fatwa ban for all Malaysian MOVIE which expose BODY from release for market especially Malay, Tamil & Hindi.
    7. Fatwa ban for all TV show which singing, dance, games which mere exposing body, action, talks which beyond ethic.
    8. Fatwa ban for all liquor company like Carlsberg, Guinness, etc. Ask them stop operation immediately.
    9. Fatwa ban for all cigarette firms.
    10. Fatwa ban for all massage/spa by rejecting all LICENCE.
    11. Fatwa on Muslim using the numeral which invented by Indian. ‘0’ is Suniyam concept of Indian nothingness philosophy which will leads towards Hinduism principle.
    12. Fatwa from Muslim girls going out for shift works.
    13. Fatwa from Muslim girls to go out without a family man together.

    WHAT SUPPOSE TO BE DONE FOR MUSLIM IS IGNORE BY JAKIM AND ALL GOOD THINGS ARE BLOCK WHAT A PETTY SITUATION FOR MUSLIM’S IN MALAYSIA. JAKIM or its immature officer IS NOT CAPABLE OF PROVIDE POSITIVE RESULT FOR MAN KIND. Let’s people express it.

    You know what will happen the land of lovely Malaysia will empty desert where not only Indian & Chinese will migrate but first of all Mature Muslim Malays will migrate earlier.

    DETAILS:
    All reference here by Sanskrit (Euro-Indo) language document if refer by Tamil Document as original Indian language and only language qualify 11/11 criteria for pure language then knowledge have trace back history of Kumari Kandam which dated back 15,000 years ago. World’s entire knowledge unfold from Indian Yogis breathe while in meditating. Proof being discover by latest researchers inside Indian Ocean.

    Vedic Philosophy

    The Vedas are the oldest written text on our planet today.
    They date back to the beginning of Indian civilization and
    are the earliest literary records of the human mind.

    They have been passed through oral tradition for over
    15,000 years, and first appeared
    in written form between 2500 – 5,000 years ago.

    Veda means “Knowledge” in Sanskrit which derived from Tamil Vetham.

    The entire invention before and yet to come is origin from the source of Greatest Indian Siddhar, Yogi, Munivar’s writing which arise from the result of practicing the Yoga & Meditation.

    A few to list:

    India invented the Number System. Zero was invented by Aryabhatta. The place value system, the decimal system was developed in India in 100 BC.

    Aryabhatta was the first to explain spherical shape, size ,diameter, rotation and correct speed of Earth in 499 AD.

    The World’s first university was established in Takshila in 700 BC. Students from all over the World studied more than 60 subjects.

    The University of Nalanda built in the 4th century was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in the field of education.
    Sanskrit is considered the mother of all higher languages but it has trace back to Tamil as oldest language. Sanskrit is the most precise, and therefore suitable language for computer software – a report in Forbes magazine, July 1987.

    Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans. Charaka, the father of medicine consolidated Ayurveda 2500 years ago. Ayurveda is the only medicine academic where all other old as well modern health caring technique grown from. Ayurveda is purely Indian and if you want to tell the truth in JAKIM’s context it’s HINDUSIM base.

    Today Ayurveda is fast regaining its rightful place in civilization.
    Christopher Columbus was attracted India’s wealth and was looking for route to India when he discovered the American continent by mistake.

    The art of Navigation was born in the river Sindh 6000 years ago. The word ‘Navigation’ is derived from the Sanskrit word NAVGATIH. The word navy is also derived from Sanskrit ‘Nou’.

    In Siddhanta Siromani (Bhuvanakosam 6) Bhaskaracharya II described about gravity of earth about 400 years before Sir Isaac Newton. He also had some clear notions on differential calculus, and the Theory of Continued Fraction.

    Madhavacharya discovered Taylor series of Sine and Cosine function about 250 years before Taylor.

    Madhavacharya discovered Newton Power series.

    Madhavacharya discovered Gregory Leibnitz series forthe Inverse Tangent about 280 years before Gregory.

    Bhaskaracharya calculated the time taken by the earth to orbit the sun hundreds of years before the astronomer Smart. Time taken by earth to orbit the sun: (5th century) 365.258756484 days

    Infinity was well known for ancient Indians. Bhaskaracharya II in Beejaganitha(stanza-20) has given clear explanation with examples for infinity

    Theory of Continued Fraction was discovered by Bhaskaracharya II.

    Indians discovered Arithmetic and Geometric progression. Arithmetic progression is explained in Yajurveda.

    Govindaswamin discovered Newton Gauss Interpolation formula about 1800 years before Newton.

    Vateswaracharya discovered Newton Gauss Backward Interpolation formula about 1000 years before Newton.

    Parameswaracharya discovered Lhuiler’s formula about 400 years before Lhuiler.

    Nilakanta discovered Newton’s Infinite Geometric Progression convergent series.

    Positive and Negative numbers and their calculations were explained first by Brahmagupta in his book Brahmasputa Siddhanta.

    Aryabhatta also propounded the Heliocentric theory of gravitation, thus predating Copernicus by almost one thousand years.

    The value of “pi” was first calculated by Boudhayana, and he explained the concept of what is known as the Pythagorean Theorem. He discovered this in the 6th century long before the European mathematicians. This was ‘validated’ by British scholars in 1999.
    Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from India. Quadratic equations were propounded by Sridharacharya in the 11th century.
    The largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used were 106 whereas Hindus used numbers as big as 1053 with specific names as early as 5000 BC during the Vedic period. Even today, the largest used number is Tera: 10 power of 12.

    Maharshi Sushruta is the father of surgery. 2600 years ago he and health scientists of his time conducted complicated surgeries like caesareans, cataract, artificial limbs, fractures, urinary stones and even plastic surgery.

    Usage of anaesthesia was well known in ancient India. Over 125 surgical equipments were used.
    Detailed knowledge of anatomy, physiology, aetiology, embryology, digestion, metabolism, genetics and immunity is also found in many texts.
    When many cultures were only nomadic forest dwellers over 5000 years ago, Indians established Harappan culture in the Sindhu Valley Civilization.

    Most worlds curry base cooking originated from India.

    Rig Vedas (1.50), a hymn addressed to the Sun, refers quite clearly that the Sun traverses 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha. This is in fact refers to the speed of light.

    The World’s First Granite Temple is the Brihadeswara temple at Tanjavur in Tamil Nadu. The shikhara is made from a single ’80-tonne’ piece of granite.

    The world famous and priceless “Kohinoor” diamond, which is set in the Crown of the British monarch (Queen Victoria, and Elizabeth II), was acquired from India.

    According to the Gemological Institute of America, up until 1896, India was the only source for diamonds to the world.

    Chess (Shataranja or AshtaPada) was reportedly invented in India.

    The game of snakes & ladders was created by the 13th century poet saint Gyandev. It was originally called ‘Mokshapat.’ The ladders in the game represented virtues and the snakes indicated vices.

    THE FOLLOWING KNOWLEDGE ALREADY AVAILABLE 10,000 THOUSANDS YEARS AGO BY INDIAN BUT MOST OF IT NOT EVEN DISCOVER TILL 19TH AND 20TH CENTURY BY MODERN SCIENTIST.
    India’s ancient achievements in Medical Science
    Knowledge
    Artificial Limb
    Number of Chromosomes (23)
    Combination of Male and Female
    Analysis of Ears
    Beginning of the Foetal
    Parthenogenesis
    Test Tube Babies ( from the ovum only)
    Test Tube Babies ( from the sperm only)
    Elongation of Life in confirmed Space Travel
    Cell Division (in 3 layers)
    Embryology
    Micro-organisms
    A material producing a disease can prevent or cure the disease in minute quantity
    Developing Embyro in Vitro
    Life in trees and plants
    16 Functions of the Brain Eitereya
    Definition of Sleep Prashna-Upanishad
    Chromosomes

    India’s ancient achievements in Physical Science
    Knowledge
    Velocity of Light
    Trans-Saturnean Planets
    Space Travel to another solar system
    Gravitational Force (Prashnopanishad)
    Ultraviolet Band
    Infra-Red Band
    Tachyons faster than light
    Nuclear Energy
    Black Holes
    Embryology
    Monsoon at Summer Solstice
    Entry in South America by Aeroplanes
    Phosphorescent Trident at the Bay of Pisco, Peru, S.America
    Aeroplanes
    Robot
    Atom (Divisible) & (Indivisible)

    The 4 kinetic ideas behind Hindu Vedic Spirituality (Modern world call NLP)
    Karma
    Maya
    Nirvana
    Yoga

    Majority Religious Fail because:
    ACCEPTING THE TRUTH IS PEACE, MANIPULATING THE FACT IS DISASTERS FOR MAN KIND ALL RELIGION IS ENFORCING COMPASIONATE & UN-CONDITIONAL LOVE BUT IT DOESN’T CUTIVATE OR FEEL BY FOLLOWER BECAUSE SHIELD BY EGO, SHAME, INFERIORITY AND LEADS TOWARDS IN-COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE WHICH BORROWED FROM INDIAN. PLEASE OPEN THE MIND, HEART SINCERELY AND THE CREATOR (what ever you call) WILL FURNISH PEACE LIVE)

  9. Dear Readers,
    I’m practicing yoga since 11 years old, provide training for more then 10 years. I wish the best for Muslim friends.
    Any history can be wrong, wrongly written, wrongly understand or even manipulated.
    Truth is Truth which is India is source of all knowledge for man kind in this world, Hinduism is platform of any philosophy and life’s code of ethics originates. That’s also to be sharp we should say Dharma = ‘Compassionate’ is where VEDAS formulated.
    Whole world every life form will have to point to India if any question need to be clarify with perfect or perfected answer including about sciences, philosophy and origin or god matter. Scientist without meeting Indian Sage and Yogi is continues test ground with correctable error. For a past 21 century history proves this.
    As such just to summarize the whole briefing :
    Ayurveda, Sciences, Invention as well cultural are origin from India, Dharma, In some people words Hinduism.
    Everyone in this world including Christian, Islam Budhist, Jews, etc have become brain by reading those Vedas and translate with customisation according to each individual groups requirement. Most important activity of damage is the pure knowledge of Indian is been cut off partially or change to avoid original tracing thus its hanging without wholeness.
    Learned men from China, Tibet the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Afghanistanis, Persians, Arabs and more traveled to learn the complete wisdom and bring it back to their own countries.

    Arabic under physicians such as Avicenna and Razi Sempion both whom quoted Indian Ayurvedic text, established Islamic medicine. AYURVEDIC and its medical treatment concept IS HIDUISM BASE!

    16th century Europe, Paracelus, ho is known as the father of modern Western medicine, practiced and propagated a system of medicine which borrowed heavily from Ayurveda.
    WHY ISLAM use THAT INDIA’S MEDICINE KNOWLEDGE in ARAB?
    WHY ISLAM use THAT EUROPE MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE/DRUGS WHICH EUROPEAN BORROW FROM INDIA?
    If some proves that my statement is wrong then i will remove this blogs immediately.
    Fatwa on Yoga is the greatest loss for Muslim in Malaysia. Soon or near future the world history will witness and accept my compassionate statements.
    I have heard muslim people wanted to do pilates, from where does pilates orginates check carefully Muslim should not play Chess Game it is design by Indian?
    Next what could happen further highest migration statistic from Malaysia muslim to OVERSEA will increase for next following years.
    Can I ask to someone if NOT YOGA to show which other exercise can cure Diebetics or Asthma?
    Ok, if you say use medicine then modern medicine foundation its from Ayurvedic!
    Most NHS or Hospital and Churhs in Western countries opening with high priority of Yoga Theraphy Centre as important community services.
    A day will come Western will stop produce R&D and drugs and just implement Yoga & Meditation, so what Malaysian Muslim going to do for medicine?
    This year alone above USD900 Million dollars (RM3,150,000,000.00) more then RM3.5 Billion ringgit spend for Yoga & Meditation research towards health & psyhology benefit in Western country)
    Very important message, Indian, via Dharma Edge or now call Hinduism found CHAKRA which is 7 major Chakra, 7 major types of frequencies in human body. It’s can be readed via biometric devices (finger print technology). That’s is base universal energy flow thru human body thru Chakra and major Endrocrine Gland system. This chakra also base for Yoga Meditation which become beyond ordinary human’s imagination about health recovery.
    Every human including you and me have that 7 Chakra energy centre of conscious spot existed in body. Sinces this great knowledge is reveal by Indian , Dharma=Hinduism Are you going to deny this 7 Chakra is not exist in your body?
    This is just a briefing after several calls/sms/emails/blogs chat about my view about Fatwa on Yoga.
    Every country who Fatwa on Yoga will remove it again just matter of time, Malaysia could be first or last country to remove fatwa on yoga.
    Fatwa on Yoga is the greatest loss for Muslim in Malaysia. Soon or near future the world history will witness and accept my compassionate statements.

  10. @Din Ahmad
    SHHH!
    Why did you mention Taichi and Qigong for?!! Now they are going to “research” them and find enough `wrongs’ to issue another couple of fatwas. We’re talking about people with not enough productive things to do, and with all the free time on their hands to kill…

    BTW Din Merican: “Alor Star” … that was my former hometown. Hope you find it okay enough…
    _________
    Cendana287, I see you are from SAHC. I grew up in Bakar Bata/Alor Merah in the 1940s-1960s. It is a great city and we have a wonderful DYMM Sultan Kedah Tuanku Sultan Abdul Halim Mua’azam Shah ibni Almahrum Sultan Badlishah, who is a great gentleman and excellent ruler. I am a Kedahan and a proud one too. Yes, Alor Setar is a nice place to live.

    We, Malaysian Muslims, must read the Holy Koran and learn to think for ourselves..

  11. Bro. Din,

    I think the Ulama should also issue a fatwa that the source of their gaji is 90 percent paid by Kafir taxpayers. Since their gaji is from Kafir, it must be haram.

    Ulamaks should also aware that their salary come from cukai judi, cukai arak, kadar bunga, lesen anjing, cukai rumah urut etc. Since all of these activities are haram where and when their gaji get filtered and make it clean and halal. Why their gaji still halal?

    Over to you ulamaks. Please enlighten all of us, the Kafir taxpayers, that feed you and your children.

  12. Salam Abang Din,

    Saya ingin menasihatkan kepada para mufti dan anggota Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan, ingatlah kalian diangkat menjadi pemimpin untuk memartabatkan Islam. Kalian wajib mengutamakan tuntutan agama mengatasi tuntutan pemimpin politik.

    Tindak tanduk kalian dalam banyak isu, terutama isu yoga ini telah menyebabkan penganut agama lain memandang sinis terhadap perlaksanaan hukum-hukum Islam di Malaysia. Harapan saya, janganlah jadi Mufti atau pemimpin agama yang lebih menyesatkan kami.

    Salam takzim,
    Sofi

  13. Sebenarnya penganut agama lain tidak memandang sinis terhadap orang Islam. Kami menghormati orang Islam yang baik, tidak rasuah, bekerja dengan rajin, mematuhi ajaran agama mereka dengan menhindari segala kejahatan. Amar Maaruf Nahi Mungkar sering di sebut oleh Lim Guan Eng.

    Apa yang tidak masuk akal ialah apabila Ulamak memperlecehkan ajaran agama lain. Yoga diharamkan kerana berunsur hindu. Apakah kerana ianya berunsur agama Hindu ianya semestinya buruk dan jahat? Apakah Chi Kung yang Berasaskan Buddha semestinya buruk?
    Apakah kerana Meditasi yang memberikan ketenangan kepada mereka yang mengamalkannya ianya sesuatu yang jahat. Atau Ulamak memerlukan keganasan berbanding denagan ketenangan.

    Ini bukan kesalahan ajaran Islam. Ini berlaku kerana mereka yang diberi kuasa mentafsirkan ajaran Islam mentafsirkan sesuatu isu berdasarkan fahaman sempit dan kepentingan politik mereka. Ini juga tidak menjadi masalah sekiranya pendirian mereka setakat mempengaruhi mereka dan sanak saudara mereka sahaja. Ia menjadi masalah bila fahaman sempit mereka cuba di tafsirkan untuk semua orang.

    Mengunakan Perkataaan Datin Marina, It is not Islamisation but “Moronisation of Islam.

  14. One day, these guys might even ban interaction with people of other faiths. Reason? You might be persuaded to leave your religion since you talk to them.

    What’s next?

    Nutters!

  15. Even if they have a case for the yoga issue,in comparison what are they doing about more pressing issues of money politics in umno, the judiciary,the Altantunia case and a host of others.Yes we know they are pro bn umno, but cant they see that the outside world are laughing silly at their stupidity? and hence our nation as a whole.

    Brother Dino,please talk to Anwar to hasten the change,we dont mind if the PR makes the same goofs,as we can say we tried and the 13GE we will evict them.In any case any one will be a better alternative to the bn.

    As always I am an optimist, with God’s intervention March 09 we will see a change,and I dont mean the Najis change over.

  16. Fatwa ban on using fork % spoon western influence???? How about Kung-fu which may lead to Buddhist influence. Don’t know whether to laugh or to cry !!!

  17. Study any of the several Muslim countries that are now engulfed in violence in the name of religion and you will see that without exception they all started with the thin edge of the religious wedge. We should not fool ourselves that this can never happen in our beautiful, moderate country. It is getting obvious that the government-sponsored organisations run by the current religious “leaders” should be disbanded and quickly. The Malays of this country have always been devout, moderate Muslims. They do not need such religious “leadership”. Please Mr. Badawi, do something.

  18. telah banyak fatwa dikeluarkan. Cuma kebelakangan ini terlalu banyak komen yang tidak sedap dibaca dari mereka yang islam atau pun bukan. dalam islam benda yang pasti haram tak perlu keluar fatwa macam makan babi. Itu sebab dalam keluar panduan kita berdasarkan alquran, hadis dan ijmak. Fatwa dalam kelompok ijmak ulamak yang bermakna dari pandangan mereka yang arif dalam bidang agama. Dan agama itu pula bukan berdasarkan Logik. kalau ikut Logik maknanya takda beza antara hindu dan islam sebab semua orang boleh tafsir ikut kepala mereka sendiri. Cuba hormat pandangan tersebut tanpa cuba kait dengan politik. masalahnya kamu semua benda nie kait dengan umno tu yang nampak salah. memang mereka makan gaji tapi mereka juga ada maruah pada agama. Contoh fatwa pasal rokok dah lama keluar tapi terpulang pada individu nak pakai atau tak.

  19. Tell you what…they would probably issue a edict to the Malay to stop selling ‘pau’ and it started with the Chinese Bun and for all we know what the Chinese Bun meat you know what. Next the Chee Cheong Fun where it is purely plain rice flour but the name means Pi8 intestine noodle, that is even more offensive???

  20. This is good (or bad) as it gets… Speaking of the Gomen servants, i mean. They were actually encouraged to ‘religiously’ practice yoga and other sress relief techniques to ‘ease’ their ‘minds’! This was going on for the past 20yrs+ – and see where it all got us!?

    Now, now, we shan’t use terms like ‘qigong’, ‘taichi’ and ‘silat’ because of their innate mystical beliefs.
    Better to use the term ‘mental exercise’ because these ‘dysmentals’ sure need them come next GE.

    ‘Tomboy’ – Definition please? The rein of terror by overzealous J. Agama ‘peeping-toms’ begins afresh, meaning no disrespect for the ‘straight-er’ ones. Hajjah Marina, guess you have to settle for ‘silat gayong harimau’ for now, before they use the ‘silat ceket’ on you, and all of us.

    Btw, Din, i think our Sis in Islam have given their preliminary view; and that this may be a knee jerk reaction to the ongoing “Guru Ji and Disciples” saga. Guru Sami in trouble… heh, heh. Cheers.

  21. I’m sorry but my thoughts go beyond the “Yoga” Issue.

    The imams giving their Friday sermons are doing what they are paid to do ( a few harboring political ambitions of sorts use the bully pulpit to spread their ideological views of the world) but the holier-than-thou politicians see religion as a tool, and fully aware that they are sitting on a vast reservoir of political energy, tap this energy to launch their political careers. They do this to harness political support and eventually amass economic wealth on earth for themselves and their families. It has little do so with nurturing their relationship with their Creator.

    They see themselves as cultural warriors, and later as heads of a religious movement. Why not? Who can stop a movement?

    Turn as many people into “Melayu” was their way, and what better way to do it then to take an obscure clause in our Federal Constitution 1957 Article 160(2) (which deals on “interpretation” of terms in our Constitution, a harmless enough provision at the back of the document some call the Social Contract) and announce to the world that the Malays are Muslims and since they cannot renounce their ethnic identity, they cannot but remain Muslims in order to be Malay. Throw this in and mix and grind them with constitutional provisions like Articles 3, 11 and Article 153 (among others), these politicians then come up with a neat political formula that nobody dares or wants to question. The PAS brand of politics in retrospect was way ahead of its time, existing then at the margin of Malay Muslim society, but today has taken center stage in national politics – right of center perhaps.

    For five long decades the Malays have allowed their heads to be toyed with by selfish and self serving politicians, first as cultural warriors and later as so-called warriors of their faith. The non-Malays and non-Muslims – not wanting to disturb political stability of their country, forced perhaps to see themselves essentially as economic migrants the way their forefathers saw themselves – stood by and did nothing to stop the ‘movement’. They were assisted in no small measure by their leaders interested only to harvest the fruits of their labor and have them stashed away in foreign lands, whose world view became their view.

    They will have to share some of the blame.

  22. This yoga issue is a stupid haram thing to do on Muslims and their religion. I think the Fatwa Council is sacreligious – that’s MY FATWA! Take it or leave!

    Perhaps there are some dirt they’re trying to hide, get you people worked up over nothing!

    This yoga thing is cool, Man!

    With –>THIS<– exercise, you could spend on only a pair of jeans all your life. No costs holding on wardrobe collection of pants! You could ride over this financial crisis with just a pair of jeans! 😀

    I got caught in this in the late 60’s and early 70’s because word got around it could help improve vision on horribly near-sighted students. It did nothing for my eyes – instead, it turned muscles on my abs! Helped though in later years as you grounded away fats on company lunches and dinners! 😀

  23. Dear Hajjah Marina Yusoff

    Thank you dear, it’s Muslim like you that give us hope & know that not all Malays or Muslims are confused by JAKIM and the like.

    Whenever JAKIM & the like do something so ridiculous that irritates the non Muslims rakyat, & when people start protesting, they claim non Muslims do not respect Muslims, Islam or Malays which is not true at all. Non Muslims can’t respect JAKIM & the like mainly because their speech & action can’t earn people’s respect, it’s them that people don’t respect, it has nothing to do with Muslims, Islam or Malays, and I believe they should be cautious, and always check their conscience, speech & action so as not to tarnish Islam, a great religion. I believe people do respect good Muslims who truly follow and understand the teachings of Islam, at least I do.

    Thank you very much for breaking thru’ and speak up for the truth.

  24. The non-Malays and non-Muslims – not wanting to disturb political stability of their country, forced perhaps to see themselves essentially as economic migrants the way their forefathers saw themselves – stood by and did nothing to stop the ‘movement’. They were assisted in no small measure by their leaders interested only to harvest the fruits of their labor and have them stashed away in foreign lands, whose world view became their view. They will have to share some of the blame.

    You are right Mr. Bean, The best part is that Chinese supporting MCA and Indian supporting MIC don’t even realise that they are helping UMNO crooks to screw their own race. Most Chinaman would be happy to cari-makan and bribery is accepted as a norm. Now UMNO crooks have master the art of bribery and re-branded it as money politics.

    Look at the nomination for Najib despite his close association with Razak Baginda. Look at the support for Rafidah knowing the AP scandal. UMNO people are “pekak badak” to all those fact just because money politic is now in their blood.

    And yet MCA and MIC still have no balls to stop the “movement”. They are now ready to lick Najib’s ball to prolong the agony of the masses. They cant see the “structural erection” of Soi Lek who is now the second powerful man in MCA. Forget about Samy No Value…

  25. It is a trifle unfair to put even part of the blame of the current issue on the non-Muslim community because they are nothing but hapless onlookers in the unfolding saga. This also includes their leaders who for whatever reasons have wisely kept themselves out of it.

    At the end of the day it is about what kind of a role religion should play in politics. That debate is best left to others more qualified but for this ordinary Muslim I feel that one immediate step should be a directive to stop the issuing of Fatwas on any issue by anyone. It will be but a small step but it might just be the right point for Muslims here to start reflecting on what kind of religion we need.

  26. Why no Fatwa on ministers travelling overseas carrying haram money? Why no Fatwa on Fat politicians’ Wives travelling to kaffir countries to shop for kaffir comforts and kaffir glamour?….

    So many more whys? What about Article 5(1) in our Constitution

    “5(1) No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty save in accordance with law.”

  27. “At the end of the day, it is about what kind of a role religion should play in politics” Isa Manteqi

    The framers of our 1957 Constitution, I believe, never intended a role for religion (read: Islam) the way it has come to play in the life of our nation today. I believe what was intended was for Islam to have an official role in the ceremonies of state. The need to protect and safeguard the constitutional status of Islam, Malay customs and accord Malays temporary special privileges was for a reason. We may not agree what this reason is – or if there is one singular reason. But we cannot deny that it was never to impose Islamic values or to allow Islamic values to permeate or intrude into our private lives to the degree it now has.

    Tragically they conveniently overlooked the fact that in Islam you cannot really separate religion from the state. Islam is more than just a religion. It is a way of life. It is a philosophy of life. It is everything of the above – and not none of the above.

    Shouldn’t we have followed the Turkish model and allow no role at all for religion in the country’s constitution?

  28. “Now UMNO crooks have master the art of bribery and re-branded it as money politics.” Tean

    The Malays are slow learners but you can bet your bottom dollar that when they do they fine tune the art to a level which will surprise even the Chinese! Just like war is diplomacy by other means, so is money politics by other means.

  29. I’m no lawyer to understand the complexities, but the Islamic authorities issued a fatwa only (a ruling that is not legally binding), but even if it was law, it would not have fit with…

    Article 4(1) This Constitution is the supreme law of the Federation and any law passed after Merdeka Day which is inconsistent with this Constitution shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void.

    Cheers for a month and a day more to Xmas.

  30. Yes, over here turkeys do get spared for whatever ill-repute they might have earned. But not so I guess in the land of the free and home of the brave.

  31. Rasuah, riba, bank islam (or none islamic but we have no choice) , lebih hampir kepada syirik. Hukumnya seolah olah berzina dengan ibu atau bapa 10X.

    Why we are not hightlightinging these issues. We accept these as norms and more interested in cases whereby with need 4 valid witnesses which in hukum the lowest in order.

    Well, with this kind of attitute soon our footballers too cant perform using football shorts. Swimming, gymnastic would soon be haram.

    cikcun

  32. Yeah Thanksgiving! let’s celebrate with native food – pulut, ikan bakar, ayam goreng, sayor cucok paku and gulai daging in appreciation of the hospitality of our Orang Asli for allowing our ‘pendatang’ forefathers – the Malays, the Chinese, the Indians, the Turks and the Arabs stay on this beautiful land we now call “our home”.

    The day Pakatan Rakyat takes over the government of Malaysia, we should all celebrate “THANKSGIVING”! 😀

  33. Isa M, name me an UMNO/BN politician who is not corrupt? Rafidah was just ‘unlucky’ to be caught for the AP scandals. The rest got away with even murder!

  34. Ooops didn’t those fartwas say gay/lesbian is worse than murder? God bless this land if those asshats are allowed to continue to rule this Malaysia!

  35. Taichi, Ci Qong, Wai Tang Kong serta akupunktur dapat diusul dari ajaran agama Taoisme. Menurut kepercayaannya, dunia ini ialah kosmos semulajadi (bukan dgn kehendak/kuasa Allah Kun Fayakun) yang mengandungi tenaga dinamakan “ci”, dan ianya mempunyai aliran positif dan negatif (Ying dan Yang). Di dalam tubuh badan manusia ini pun ada kosmos dan “ci” itu. Taichi, Ci Qong, Wai Tang Kong serta akupunktur berasaskan usaha untuk mengalirkan “ci” ke dalam tubuh badan dan mengimbangi “ying” dan “yang”.

    Jadi mengikut rasional Fatwa tentang yoga, tiga senaman kesihatan dan satu rawatan alaternatif ini adalah haram kerana ia berasal dari agama Toisme dan akan menggelincirkan akidah orang Islam.

    Begitu juga dengan seni mempertahankan diri orang Melayu iaitu silat. Silat sudah diamalkan oleh penduduk Nusantara sebelum kedatangan Islam lagi. Kerohanian/mistik silat banyak datangnya dari ajaran agama Hindu dan kepercayaan animisme. Bacalah Hikayat Hang Tuah dan Sejarah Melayu: dengan pertapaan (ala Hindu)dan mistik kris Taming Sari!

    Apakah silat juga akan difatwakan haram kerana dik amalan asal-usulnya sangat bertaut dengan agama Hindu dan kepercayaan animisme? Nanti tergelincir pula akidah orang Islam yang belajar dan mempraktikkan silat!

    Menurut rasional Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan juga, sukan olimpik wajib diharamkan. Olimpik berasal dan bertaut rapat dengan kepercayaan agama Yunani kuno. Puncak Olimpia dengan dewa-dewinya, obor olimpik api dari dewa Zeus.

    Bahasa Melayu/Malaysia pun banyak sekali istilah2 yang wajib diharamkan. Antara lainnya syorga, neraka, pahala, dosa dan sebagainya ialah bahasa Sanskrit yang berkaitan rapat dengan ajaran agama Hindu dan Bhudha.

    Jika tindakan mengharam penggunaannya tidak diambil, nanti tergugat pula akidah orang Melayu Islam!

  36. Yeah, there’s no better word to describe them, so “all fuckedup” until their brains(if they have any), malfunctioned! Those asshats have ‘successfully’ brought Malaysia to world’s attention, what a laughing stock! BBC had a great time reporting it!

  37. “How is that we never see headlines like ‘Christian terrorists’?”

    In the 11th century they were known by another name “The Crusaders”. In the 1500s, they were known as the ‘Conquistadors’ who brought the message of God to South America killing millions in the process – and the list goes on.

  38. In the land of copyrighted ‘name of God’, facetious fatwas are as odd and ordinary so as to give foreign news agencies a field day in reporting the freak show.

  39. What about Najib’s fondness for the complex and numerous positions described in the Kamasutra”??

    “When a man enjoys two women at the same time, both of whom love him equally, it is called the ‘united congress’. When a man enjoys many women altogether, it is called the ‘congress of a herd of cows’ : Kamasutra

    Does it make him a Hindu and a ‘kafir’??

  40. Pingback: Muslim Heretics Conference » Access Malaysia Today at http://mt.m2day.org/ - A respected muslim woman comments on yoga fatwa

  41. “Cucok dan paku?? 🙂 Old Geezer may have something to say to you – one which will involve the use of his Cooper S in his garage!” Bean

    Sorry, for the delayed response. Being outstation the last few days. Baisa lah cuti sekolah banyak jemputan kahwin sehingga ke Johore.

    Jong, I belive it’s pucok paku not cucok paku. Pucok paku is a poor man’s vegetable found aplenty along river banks and in swampy areas. It’s good to take raw as kerabu or masak lomak cilli api. You know better than me.

    Like everyone else I feel Majlis Fatwa’s edict on yoga is a sham. Nothing more but banal thoughts of a bunch of mullahs who are out of touch with mainstream activities. They have to say something to make themselves relevant. Why not issue fatwas on incest, corruption, money politics, illegal detention (ISA) and a horde of other ills confronting the nation which involve the Malays and Umno?

    I have had the opportunity to mix around with these mullahs at seminars and forums. There is nothing holy about them. They are simple folks and have their needs too. One was curious whether he’d get a datoship. Another complained about his staff car.

    Remove the skull caps/seban and they’re just like you and me.

  42. Thanx Tok Cik, yeah should be “pucok paku” – I knew something was wrong!

    Kerabu Pucok paku is a mouth-watering dish, just love those ferns!

  43. If you can’t do yoga, as suggested by the Fatwa gangsters, you could do dope, glue sniffing, etc!

    The Police have got plenty of those. They even stole stolen dope. Wonder whether the Fatwa gangsters got commission on millions of stolen dope the Police stole?

    Those cases never went to court. Maybe the Fatwa Council is happy with their commissions!

  44. “Kerabu Pucok paku is a mouth-watering dish, just love those ferns!” JONG

    …and “cucok dan paku” is what Jong wanted us to think she had in mind! Jong disguised her thoughts to make it appear as a ‘typo’. Boy, aren’t they manipulative??

    Old Geezer failed to see it because he thought luring his partner to the back seat of his Cooper S was his idea by design! Old Geezer, you can’t be more wrong!!

  45. C’mon guys!! They set up all these organizations to give them jobs they need to support their families. Malaysia’s unemployment rate is a lot worse (if you take away the disguised unemployment) than here in the U.S. where it is now soaring fast towards double digit.

    Those who work for organizations like JAKIM are only earning their pay! How else do they show their mettle to their employers than at seminars, that they too could make positive contributions and come up with innovative concepts – new twists to old ideas. It is you guys who are helping them on with the publicity they would need with your ranting!

  46. “On the call by the Syariah Lawyers Association Malaysia for the government to use the Syariah Criminal Offences Enactment and Penal Code on those who challenged the fatwa institution, he (Mohd Ali Rustam) said he supported it.”

    http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?id=374018

    This is good bizness for Syariah Lawyers! 😀

    If they repealed the Society’s Act on money politics, they would earn more money, defending and prosecuting UMNO members involved in money politics! 😦

    It looks like there is more encouragement to make “unhalal income”. Too bad they’re not allowed to make ‘halal’ earnings! 😦

  47. Mr Bean

    You, the judges and all lawyers may have to quit using Latin words soon as the Fatwa composers will soon pass a fatwa that Latin is the language of the Catholic church and speaking Latin will influence the speaker to convert to Catholicism.

    As an extension soon we will not be able to speak or write in English as it is the language of the Church of England and speakers may follow the Archbishop of Canterbury. What’s next.

  48. It is that time of the year! Thanksgiving and Christmas and the Puerto Rican girl next door has asked me out tonight. You mean there is going to be a Salman Rushdie type fatwa out for me if I kiss her??

  49. Mr Bean

    Cucok cukuplah, paku tu tajam sangat. Did you hang a mistletoe above the door or you have one mobile mistletoe hanging on top of your hat? Anyway no JAKIM or JA…. to look out for. So go for it, just remember to wear a raincoat. ha ha
    Was Irene at Skrine & Co at Straits Trading Bldg?
    Anyway the Fatwa composers are now in a bind. The Raja Raja Melayu has not agreed to accept such far reaching edicts without consultation. Perlis goes one further, why not have yoga without the religious element.

  50. And they will soon pass another fatwa to forbid us from blogging as this is a Western thing which will influence our thinking. Commenting on the blog is “haram” because it will affect our “akidah” as people like Bean, Sherk, Din, yours truly et al are western-educated and are out of sync with the Islamic faith. Engaging in verbal bards with gals like Jong, Peng, Halimah etc again is “haram” as they are not “muhrim”.

    Oh my God, the list is endless.

  51. Jong,

    You’re not the only one whose message is on moderation. I paid Celine Dione to sing you a Christmas song on the other thread and it is still on moderation for the last 48 hours! Din Merican must be busy with his cucok dan paku routine!

  52. Din might have pass your comments and song to Majlis Fatwa Negara for screening and approval. No wonder they’re on moderation mode for the past few days. Poor you.

  53. Let me try repost it….

    Mr Bean,

    Indeed I am flattered by your ‘high’ opinion of my manipulative ability although I must admit that I had dropped you a bait and you took the bite before. Still hating yourself? 😀 !

    This “cucok” for “pucok” was geniune, not disguised, none of that sort. That’s too elementary for this ‘expert’! 😀

  54. Serious guys!

    How safe is this site?? I’m getting spyware and viruses on my computer. Nuisance! Redirecting to sites I never ask! Anybody having the same problem???

  55. Jong,

    I have yet to come across a woman who is willing to admit she’s devious and manipulative. So in your case let’s just say it was a Freudian slip. Tail you lose, head I win! 🙂

  56. Hello guys..must forgive Bro. Din,

    I saw him with a lady dentist at his office yesterday. The lady dentist must have “cucok” and “paku” something in his mouth and sent him back to office.

    Any of you have the luxury of a beautiful dentist sending you back after “cucuk and paku” treatment at her clinic?

    Brother Din, Please take care of your gum and my warmest regards to your dentist.

  57. Mr Bean

    Watch out for spyware. I had an encounter recently and had to have the Geek Squad work on my laptop. Need to install the latest Norton AntiVirus for protection. Also beware of cookie that tracks your location.

  58. Tried repost it, doesn’t work. So two still “under moderation”! – Jong

    Had same problem Fri 14! Site almost grounded to a halt when accessing. If your posts are stalled for moderation, this site must be pre-empting attacks, which is good. Actually, on 14th, DMMDJB must be under intense raids!

    Took me 3 hours to clean up tracking cookies! Good thing to do it every nite before you sleep!

    Good idea to post just “testing” when problem crops up! Keep DMMDJB guy awake if he’s not already!

  59. “I have yet to come across a woman who is willing to admit she’s devious and manipulative.” – Mr Bean, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:36 am

    My dear Mr Bean, what choice do I have? I have learned never to explain myself to anyone simply because those who like me don’t need it, and those who dislike me won’t believe it. 😀

  60. I don’t visit porn sites like Jong does, where you could get those cookies tracking you and gathering info on the sites you visit and maybe steal your passwords and credit card numbers. But you could still get spyware on to your computer even by visiting harmless sites like Din Merican: the favourite Malaysian blogger. This particular Spyware could figure out and negate your attempt to restore your configuration. Cleaning your registry will not work because it won’t let you!!

    The solution? Build everything back from zero which is a slow pain-in-the-ass job. Fortunately, it is not my ass but my son’s ass. He is a member of the geek squad in his office who does it for a living.

    But I think Din Merican should find a way to clean his site if so many of us are experiencing the same problem. Already there are red flags as Jong could testify.

  61. “I have learned never to explain myself to anyone simply because those who like me don’t need it, and those who dislike me won’t believe.” JONG

    That sounds like Bush’s doctrine: either you’re with me or you’re against me!

    Hello, girl! Life is more complicated than jumping into the back seat of Old Geeer’s Cooper S! 🙂

  62. As Tean could testify no ‘cucok’ or ‘paku’ is going to solve your problem. We are old geezers here and very good at what we do 🙂 – all graduates of the “Nuts, screws and bolts” school of thought.

  63. ” The lady dentist must have “cucok” and “paku” something in his (Din Merica’s) mouth and sent him back to office.”

    Are you sure she is a dentist and not an intern?? 🙂

  64. While on the subject of ‘cucok’ and ‘paku’ my bahasa was so bad that I stood up in class and asked my Bahasa Kebangsaan (those days they called it bahasa kebangsaan) teacher what he meant by ‘mati pucuk’. Was it the name of some new veggie??

    Today thanks to Jong, this entire thread on “Muslim women” has morphed into a thread about ‘cucok’ and ‘paku’ – Jong’s favorite! 🙂

  65. Something tells me Jong finds the company of much older men more interesting and find men in their 30s dull and boring. Obviously she’s matured beyond her years. Are you guys old and decrepit?? 🙂

    Old Geezer is still driving around in his Cooper S and so he can’t be that old. Shrek I know is old and available. Don’t know about Salak. He could be young but old at heart. Din Merican? We know he’s the classic ladies’ men. Forever old.

  66. Mr Bean, you said:

    “Obviously she’s matured beyond her years.”

    Obvious, how not to when I’m 75! You, still a young punk eh? 😀

  67. While old wine does not have to be in young bottle, sometimes young bottle can bring back good memories too. No harm in getting worked up to a frenzy not only at the sight but even at the mention…but tomorrow must check bloodpressure lah.

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