‘Allah’, a non-issue really


February 16, 2013

‘Allah’, a non-issue really

by Bishop Paul Tan

For centuries, Christians in Islamic countries, especially in the Middle Eastern countries where Islam was born, have been using the word Allah without stirring up any storm in the tea cup.

COMMENT


The reason why I write this short article is to dispel all doubts about facts, truths and rationality in the use of the word Allah, a non-issue really. It becomes an issue when it is being politicised which is the case in Malaysia. This article is not intended to be polemical.

First, allow me to make a few introductory remarks.

(1) I do not pretend to speak for every Christian, less still for everyone. I speak for many people who do not profess the Islamic faith in Malaysia and perhaps for a number of Muslims in and out of Malaysia.

(2) I do not claim that Christians must use the word Allah. It is up to everyone in accordance to his or her conviction.

(3) I only claim for every human being the right and freedom to use any word found in any language. Upholding this principle, I personally claim that I have the right to use the word Allah.

In this present Malaysian context, it must be said explicitly: it is not that Christians want to use the word to confuse Muslims; rather, it is taking a stand that no one has the power to take away the God-given right to a human person the freedom to use whatever word he or she wants to use provided the rights of others are not being violated.

If certain Muslims in Malaysia feel that their rights are being violated, they have only to look at history to know that for centuries, Christians in Islamic countries, especially in the Middle Eastern countries where Islam was born, have been using the word Allah without stirring up any storm in the tea cup.

To say that using the word Allah may confuse the Muslims in Malaysia is tantamount to casting aspersion on them because it is accusing them of having a faith so weak that, unlike their Muslim brothers and sisters in other countries, they are easily shaken because people of other faiths use the word Allah for God. Sikhs, Bahai’s, Maltese, Mizrahi Jews, etc., use Allah. More of this later.

In the same setting, I would like to emphasise that Malaysia is a constitutional or parliamentary democracy and not a theocratic state, in concrete, an Islamic state; say what you want, the fact remains that at the inception of the Federal Constitution, our founding fathers did not want Malaysia to be an Islamic state.

Our founding father Tunku Abdul Rahman’s statement on the matter is the best testimony.

The Sultan of Selangor and the Sultan of Pahang have banned non-Muslims from using the term Allah. Our Federal Constitution does not give any sultan the power to dictate to people of other faiths what religious rules that they must follow.

People of faiths other than those of Islam have their own religious heads who govern and tell them what is right or wrong in accordance with their religious beliefs.

Facts and reasoning

My claim of human right for everyone on the use of any word from any language, in this case the word Allah, is based on the following facts and reasoning.

Allah is a pre-Islamic word used by Arabs, e.g., the Arabs in Mecca, before Prophet Muhammad was born. For these Arabs, the word, Allah, means “creator deity”. It is therefore not an Islamic creation and Muslims have no exclusive claim to it although they may and have injected into it specific nuances.

If the Holy Prophet Muhammad wanted Muslims to use a specific word with special connotations that others did not have, he would have created a new word and not use a word already used by the Arabs and Arab-Christians before his time.

Besides, Christians, Mizrahi Jews, Bahai’s, Maltese, Sikhs, and others use the same word. The Skhs have publicly proclaimed that their Holy Scriptures have used the word Allah 37 times. The Sikhs ask the rhetorical question: Are they also forbidden to read and pray their Scriptures?

This word Allah and its cognates are found in many languages. Just to give a few examples:

in Urdu/Persian/Dari/Uyshur, it is the same word, Allah; in Bengali, and in Bosnian languages, it is also Allah; in Czech and Slovak languages, it is Allach, etc.,

In the Holy Quran, it is written clearly that Jews, Christians, Sabeans worship Allah. Allow me to quote only one surah – surah 2:62: “Those who believe in the Quran and those who follow the Jewish Scriptures and the Christians and the Sabeans… who so believe in God (Allah) and the last day…

In our own country, in Sabah and Sarawak, our Bumiputera, e.g., Kadazans, Ibans, Bidahyus, Melanaus, etc., have been using the word Allah in their languages for umpteen years.

No country in the world, including the Arab countries in the Middle East and, closer to Malaysia, Indonesia, forbids non-Muslims from using the word Allah. Christians in these countries have been using it for centuries. At present, there are about 10 to 12 million Arab Christians using the word Allah for God.

If some Malaysian Muslims claim that non-Muslims cannot use the word because the Malaysian Muslims’ understanding of Allah is unique to them, then logically they are saying that the Arab Muslims also have a different understanding of Allah from their understanding because the Arab Muslims use the word Allah for God and allow Christians to use the same word.

Consequently, we would be a laughing stock of enlightened people in the world if we were to continue to make criminals of people of faiths other than those of Islam because they use the word Allah.

I have in my possession a Dutch Gospel according to St Matthew or in Malay Language, Injil Matius, in the book “Nuevve Testament.” It was translated into the Malay language in 1629. In it, the word for God is translated as Allah. There are other Christian literatures translated into the Malay language after 1629 using Allah for God.

There is only one God

Permit me to quote wholesale Malaysiakini on what lawyer Annou Xavier said:

“The May 4, 2009 order by the court, according to Annou, stated the applicant (Jilil Ireland Lawrence Bill, a Melanau Christian) be given a declaration that it is within her legitimate expectation to use the word Allah and have ownership, to obtain, use and import such materials including printing items with the word for her own practice.”

He further brought MAIS’s attention to a circular, dated April 11, 2011 and endorsed by Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak himself, which stated that the government has agreed that non-Muslims may import, buy, print, distribute, read and use the bible in any language, including Bahasa Malaysia.

Further to this, although the issue is still pending on the appeal to the court of appeal, KL High Court has ruled on Dec 31 2009 that the ban on the use of the word “Allah” by people of faiths other than those of Islam is illegal.

There is only one God, call Him/Her/It whatever you want, Brahman, God, Almighty, Absolute, Allah, Shang Ti or Tian or Tian Zhu. The One Creator does not change just because we humans change the word or the meaning of the word. He is the One Creator of all creatures.

Hence, to forbid people who profess faiths other than those who profess Islam is to say that Allah is not the creator of non-Muslims.

This would indeed be a blasphemy to Allah. A greater insult would be to confine Allah to Muslims and consequently logically to admit that there are other gods, true or false, besides Him/Her/It. This would be against the very tenet of Islam that there in only one God.

God does not speak in human words. Words are created by the human mind that wants to convey to others that which he or she sees, hears, smells, touches and tastes.

From what comes through these senses, the human person extrapolates with his/her intelligence all the common features of similar things and comes up with a symbolic word, e.g., that is a “tree”.

God is spirit. The Absolute has no human body through which It comes to know. The Almighty does not speak in any human language. He/She/It is beyond and above all limited human language.

Why must one pray in a particular language, be it in Latin or in Arabic or in Pali, etc.,? This human rule seems to say that God or Allah can only understand that one language. This is tantamount to limiting the power of God to being able to understand only one language.

It is also equivalent to saying that there are other gods who can understand other languages. It defeats the basic belief of the monotheist religions that believe that there is only one god, one god, creator of all things.

Hence, to limit that absolute being to any human word would be equivalent to making Him/Her/It a human being. This is what we humans say: “to anthropomorphise” the Absolute Almighty. It would be an insult to make Him/Her/It less than what IS.

From the above, it is clear that to forbid anyone from using any word for that Absolute Almighty is to fall into irrationality and absurdity. It is against all reasoning, all facts and truths.

Bishop Paul Tan is the immediate past president of the Catholics Bishops’ Conference of Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei

Note: if you have the time and patience please read this: http://english.cpiasia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2272&catid=78

32 thoughts on “‘Allah’, a non-issue really

  1. The many muslims buddies I have and admired mentioned many times to me since so long ago that their faith is between them and God for God sees inside us and not outside us. They do their prayers in private without jeopardy of corp meetings or sthg like that. Those who knows them after a while held very high regard of islam for their faith remained strongly deep rooted inside them. Friends from Perkim also do likewise. One of such persons who left lasting impression was Tun Raja Mohar.

    PRC has 30m Muslims and this issue doesn’t arise. I don’t hear of this issue from the many Muslim friends and clients we have from the MEast and we respect each other’s religion and rights to practice their beliefs without politicizing. Religion freedom is allowed so long as it remains apart from politics.

    It must be remembered that our Bapa Malaysia founded Perkim to spread Islam in a secular world by deeds and love; not for political gain. Many converted because of the faith and not benefit. They retained their cultural name. In PRC it was the same. Culture and Religion are two different matters e.g. Tun Omar Ong YL.

    Going back to history, Parameswara came to Malacca as a Hindu as Hinduism went to Sumatra from India. The first entourage from PRC were muslims beginning from Zheng He, Hang Tua, Hang Jebat and all the followed. They settled, multiplied and take local wives (their navy were all men). They did not colonize Malacca.

    Bishop Tan did his homework. To have come to the stage of politicizing God is blasphemy so let’s keep our religion to ourselves and live harmoniously as enshrined in our constitution.

  2. How right you are Y BHg. Bishop Paul. In Larry Collins and Domonique Lapierre’s book “O Jerusalem” I quote an episode in the book when Arab gunmen attacked Arab Safafa Hospital in Jerusalem and murdered Dr Hugo Lehrs, a Jewish physician who was attending Arab patients. When Dr Mikhail Malouf heard about his colleague, he exclaimed ” Ya Allah, this should never happened!” Dr Malouf was an Arab christian.

  3. This is what I call all “ado about nothing”. We have serious problems like rampant corruption and fiscal mismanagement to worry about and yet in stead of dealing with them, we pick on something that is a non issue all these years. It seems to me that while we have advanced economically, we have degenerated on other aspects of nation building. We have become a people with small and demented minds, at least some sections of our polity. –Din Merican

  4. In Islam Allah is the name of The God.The God had 99 names like Yan Rahim,Ya Rahman,Ya Razak,etc etc.
    In Middle east bible,they didnot used the word Allah for God but the used the word Rabb.In areb mean God.
    Only in Indonesia bile the used word Allah for God.
    Relationship betweed Christian and Muslim during the Prophet Muhammad ( Saw) was vary close.When the newly converted Muslim in Macce were being prosecuted by pagan Arab,our Prophet Muhamad (saw) asked them to migrated to Ethopia to seek protection under Christian King.When The Christian King passed away,Prophet Muhammad (saw) pray for him.

    One of Prophet Muhamad(saw) wife ,Maria was a Coptic christian from Egypt.

    Only in Malaysia,we politicise the word Allah,because UMNO need the Malay support for the election.They want to make sure they look good and protecting the Muslim and Islam.Actually some of our leader are the biggest hypocrate.

  5. Rightways, going right at every turn makes you go around in circles. The point is that the Word is and has always been Public. Maybe, you live in a private shell and thus unaware of Awareness. That’s the nature of a hermit crab.

    Bishop Paul’s views are what many correct (Right) thinking adherents of differing religious faiths. persuasions, convictions or even none at all, believe. It is obvious that a Word in any language cannot be Trademarked, Patented or otherwise made Exclusive. Legislating it also leads one to Perdition. Even life saving drugs lose their patency rights after a period of time. Surely you know that or else plagiarism and copy-catting/Xeroxing will remain a crime in perpetuity. Where would CCP be then?

  6. Surah “Al-Ikhlas”
    (Ihsan)

    Bismil-laahi rrahmaani rrahiim.
    Kul huva llahu ahad. Allahu ssomad. Lam yalid va lam yuulad. Va lam yakul-lahu kufuvan ahad.

    Translation:
    “Say: “He – Allah – One, Allah – Never-ending [only He – That is needed by everybody endlessly]. He bore and was not born, and nobody can equal Him” (see Quran, 112).
    A man having heard another repeating the words of the surah “Al-Ikhlas” many times came to the Prophet Allah, let Allah bless and greet him, and told him about it pointing that it was too short. Having heard him the Prophet Allah said: “I swear by That, at whose hand my soul is [I swear by Allah, the Creator of everything], indeed the surah “Al-Ikhlas” [by implication and importance in it] equals [one] third [of all] Quran!”

  7. Din,
    This can be solved only if the state religion is removed. The best way is to follow Turkey or Indonesia way

  8. Sure, we have the right to use whatever word we want in the world’s language, but that right is within the constraints of the laws of the land we live in. If the lawmakers of Malaysia debate successfully to make it illegal for Christians to use the word Allah in Malaysia, every Christian must abide by the law. And vice versa of course.
    Bishop Paul has not explained why he cannot accept using Tuhan, instead of Allah in the Malay language bible. Tuhan is the name for God, in the Malay language. If he can accept using Tuhan, instead of Allah, there is no quarrel whatsoever, and we can all go back to our nation building work and leave this non-productive debate once and for all.
    In middle eastern countries, for whatever reason, there is no sensitivity in using the word Allah. In Peninsular Malaysia, I’m sure Bishop Paul knows the sensitivity: Muslims can see thru the objective of the Christians in wanting to use the word Allah – i.e. to convert/influence the Muslims to Christianity. It begs the same question, why cant the Christians in Peninsular Malaysia accept to use Tuhan, as God, in the Malay language bible?

  9. Look here. You guys missed the point – big time. Of course UMNO knows everything that is written here is the truth. But then they are not peddlars of the truth. They have never been. And they never will be. It is that social engineering bull shit we get from their politicians all the time.

    They know the Federal Constitution of 1957 is essentially a secular one with Islam as the “religion of the federation”. There is a reason why it is expressed that way – and not Islam is the “official” or “state religion”.

    Notwithstaning what is written in the country’s Federal Constitution of 1957 under Article 3, to be read together with Article 11, they decided to step up the process of Islamization as if Islam is the state religion. It is not. In that context allowing thhe use of the word “Allah” by non-Muslims, by Indonesians etc serves only to undermine their efforts. They will be accused by those religious right of not safeguarding the constitutional position of Islam under the Constitution. And that is a no-no.

    I would encourage those using the word “Allah” to refer to Tuhan Yesus and Tuhan Allah to continue using it.

  10. They certainly know that ‘Allah’ is an Arabic word first used in pre-Islamic times. What does that tell you? So why are we wasting public space in highlighting the issue. The Bishop has to say his piece. It is his job. The issue is dead in the water. So why keep it alive by devoting valuable space to it??

  11. rosiah, Bishop Paul asked a very simple theological question: Is the Creator God (Allah) not the same for Muslims and Non-Muslims? If not, then who are the true Monotheists? No man made law can legislate this, even by royal decree.

    I think the way to prevent proselytizing must be by consensus. The Muslims should not be given a free hand to do so and neither must the Christians. There are already adequate laws preventing the latter, but none for the former. Otherwise, it’s plain hypocrisy, dissimilitude and lack of conscience. The Dakwa movement must first begin among the professors of Islam, many of whom are weak in body and spirit. Take care of your charities, and the Christians won’t need to bother about the disenfranchised, poor, orphans and widows.

    Protestants like me in the Peninsula have no problem whatsoever with the sensitivity of the Word, but the fact remains that the utter need to politicize this has led to all sorts of idiosyncratic and baseless allegations. Are average Muslims truly so weak?

  12. Why not call God for a direct answer?
    God’s direct number is Jeremiah 33:3 because God said “Call me and I will answer you and show you things that you know not” so that must be God’s direct line.

  13. There should not be over=simplification on a topic which crops up too frequently on this one particular issue, something which went as far back as our common Partriach Abraham, more than 3600 years before Jesus Christ.
    We on both side of the divide should stay the middle ground, bcoz there’s much too much politicising of the Sacred Name, pulling & shoving, twisting & turning the issue, as if it can ” suit ” their own political inclinations….ie : one side hell-bent to prevail over the other….,.If this is the case, then i humbly agree that it is ‘ much ado about nothing ‘…Malaysians have more urgent or pressing things to accost how to intergrate into one nation.

    For a starter, Bishop Paul and everyone one else should try their level best and be SERIOUS to look into the website below ( which i’ve often repeated ), that we let it rest in the deepest recesses of our Individual mind for Reflection, research & studies, for that One Name which encompasses the entirety of our Manifested Universe, that we ought not oversimplify in one or two short articles :

    Its www. qaraims.com

    ( For info : this world community of Qaraims is presently under the leadership of Amir Ishaq Al’ Sulaimani ( of jewish decent ) , one of those holy Remnants of ” The Lost Children of Israel “, AND HIS DNA PROFILE CONFIRMS DIRECTLY BACK TO MOSES< who is currently the High Priest, holding in Trust as it were….awaiting the " End of Time ? " Event " as predicted or prophesied in the various Revelations – NB. this link will prove the " middle ground " position )

  14. ‘Why not call God for a direct answer?’ MattG.
    Nah.., don’t fancy eating scrolls of parchment (like Jeremiah), nor walking around naked for 3 years (Isaiah), getting chucked into a loins den or an oven (Daniel), marrying a prostitute (Hosea) are kinda weird. And i think wearing camel hair coat while eating locusts and wild honey (john the Baptist) are a bit yucky..

    Anyway, it’s no harm yodeling in the Desert.., sometimes we get rid of demons that way – but on the otherhand might acquire another 7 when we return to our God forsaken ways.

    Btw Abnizar, the DNA that you are describing is known as the Kohanim, Cohen haplogroup Y-chromosome Aaron, who was the common ancestor of the Patrilenial Jewish Priestly Caste. Moses descendants were non-extant, but his brother Aaron and his descendants were said to become the Kohanim. His sister was Mariam, not to be confused with Virgin Mary. Ergo?

    Cheers.

  15. Mr Bishop

    Get on with life! Move on! Why flog a dead horse?
    ____________
    Muthu, it is not a dead horse.It is being used for politics. People like you deserve what you are getting from MIC. Your community can be bought for a few bucks.–Din Merican

  16. Goodness gracious…you are a Repository of knowldege, how did you know all that…. CLF ?

    in all my readings, i could never have gathered those detailed readings of the Y-chromosome of Aaron, i thought it was more direct to Moses and not to Moses’ brother. But thanx to you in wonderous ways…..
    i have been enthralled in the idea of Congruity of knowledge, not that i know much, concerning Syncretic Knowledge by this group called the Perrenial Philosophers comprising couple of Jews, Christians and Moslems – its such an Enrichment !

    Sad thing is they are branded ” Freemasons ” in very negative ways…., when those responsible for ” branding ” have themselves not freed their minds from bondage…. anyway, jewels are indeed rare & precious… blessed are your ways…

  17. Thanks Abnizar. You’re most gracious.
    Another important link to realize is that the Jews have had a terrible time ever since Israel was first established in the first millennium BCE. There is speculation that Moses who was probably a ‘Egyptianized’ Canaanite, roamed the Desert with a tribe of similarly dispossessed Canaanites (who initially ended in the Nile Delta due to drought and starvation), before returning to the Land of Milk and Honey after the Bronze Age Collapse. They were the first Monotheists, who gave identity to the peasants within Canaan who had rebelled against their Pagan Rulers and formed an Egalitarian society, led by the Judges (like Deborah, Samson etc), then Prophets and finally Kings(Saul, David, Solomon etc). Moses was the model for their first quintessential and greatest Prophet, although no Jew regards him as such.

    The Sea Peoples and the Habiru (hbr), not to be confused with the Hebrews, were the result of this Bronze Age Collapse which over time, morphed into the Early Iron Age. It is also speculated that the Collapse was due to an environmental catastrophe and the rarity of Tin to alloy with Copper.

    The Philistines were initially Mycenaean-Minoans, who settled in their 5 cities of Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron, Gaza and Gath, when the Volcano at Thera (now Santorini) blew up. The modern Palestinians are not Philistines, but Canaanite Arabs.

    The story of Sodom and Gomorrah was related to a meteorite strike over the Alps, like
    the small one just a few days ago in the Urals. Err, beter stop here otherwise Dato’ will kick me out for being irrelevant and irreverent.

  18. C.L. Familiaris, it is dangerous you mess up religion with politics, worse still if race included!!

    Religions are ‘private’ matters/beliefs whereas politics are ‘public’ like government policies for all, etc. You follow Bible only, I don’t. Some may think Allah is more holier and mightier than Bible, you agree?

    Individuals or races have their own God, I don’t need your lectures. Keep your Bible to yourself as private.

  19. Hullo, rightways – if you got nothing to say, shut the f* up.
    Dato’ Din put up an article, to invite comments and promote dialogue/understanding, as all mature, responsible elders/mentors do.
    He doesn’t do this without deliberation.

    What you did was maleficent by telling the host to shut up! It’s his space and it’s up to him, not you. Don’t comment if you feel you have nothing to share – but what is worse – you’re telling others to shut up. The worst kinda hypocrisy and Napoleonic sort of character. Your logic and rationale is as soft as the grey matter that resides between your eyes. Yeah, it’s like soft white tofu!

    Yup, i’ll continue to bamboozle morons like you, who lack the sensitivity to understand simple manners and allow others to speak. Do you know the true meaning of Liberty, Grace and Empathy? Betcha you don’t. Go dwell in your hole.

  20. In my simple mind, the word Allah is indeed a no issue. It was never an issue until some ‘smart’ politician ‘politicized’ it. No one has the right to ‘copyright’ any word in any language. Certain Muslims in this country has nothing better to do and want to create trouble by coming up with this ploy claiming this word is sensitive to Muslims. My appeal to all sensible Muslims in this country is to be LESS sensitive and respect other’s love for Allah to be their God. The Bishop has explained this issue very well. If the extremist Muslims can’t accept this, it is their problem. If the Govt. is just it shouldn’t bend backwards to accommodate this.

  21. “Some may think Allah is more holier mightier than Bible” – Rightway

    For God sake one is God and the other is a book. How can you compare these two? Where did you come from? You should be the one to shup up. If you don’t know, don’t comment. Little knowledge can be dangerous.

  22. i tend to agree Semper ” lilttle knowledge can be dangerous ” – i was reluctant to go more than my earlier two Comments, Can i try my best to elucidate futher, otherwise its tying everyone of us into knots.
    Its not that simple really, due to everyone OVER SIMPLIFYING over that one particular Name Allah.
    i was earlier persuading to keep to the MIDDLE Ground, irrespective Muslims, Non-Muslims alike.

    Yes, why not, the whole world MAY USE for whatever they want to know, starting from Abraham. Even Pagans during the pre-Islamic Era, they did use – Pharoah Akhenathan who broke away from the traditional, and moved to Luxor, he used El-Lah, refering to One God. As illustration, Maurice Buchail, Ron Marson, Thomas Merton, they came into the fold of Islam after ‘long usage’ for research into the contents of all Holy Books as comparative knowledge, Another good example is LEWIS JOHNSON and son Mansour Lewis Johnson & Family, of Jewish descent, they have come into the fold, and doing their lectures in the US, likewise Ysuf Estee….( there’s a long list ) – so, the simple point is USE, yes use….the entire World can use….

    But with a caveat. When our Beloved Prophet arrived in Mecca, he found hundreds of Stone Idols by various denominations, praying or Worshipping Stone-gods, but INVOKING the Glorious Name ” Allah ” . The chief of the Idol worshippers perched there within the precints of The Ka’abah, was the renowned NABATIYAN DEITY named Hubal, but invocations was Allah. So came the Revelation to disband all Idol-worshipping. and the precints were purged. ( Yes ” Use” but not to worship idols or other Images…)

    Why di i suggest ” middle ground ” ? There is ONLY this one Exception or Provisoe in our Malaysian context – Can i put the reverse : Assuming the Holy Qura’an is translated into the Malay Language, does it make sense, or is it ‘ proper ‘ to USE the Names revealed or accorded in the Bible ( YHWH and/or JESHUA, referring to pbh Jesus Christ ) to be INTERPOLATED into the Malay Language Qura’an ? ( ie ” in place of the Revealed Name ” Allah ” )
    Conversely therefore, the ONLY stand Musim’Malays have is, as the EXCEPTION, NOT TO ‘ USE ” the Koranic Revealed Name Allah, to be INTERPOLATED into the TRANSLATED MALAY VERSION of the Bible, which really affects their AQIDAH, b’coz the implications are tremendous…not a small matter for them. (sorry to use this word, its PLAGIARISM, an Interpolation) – other than that provisoe, yes Use, the whole world is entitled, like in preIslamic or Pagan times…. ( a kind of ” Yes ” & ” No ” as the Middle ground )….
    Peace & God Bless Malaysia…

  23. Err.., Abnizar. Not to worry about the Christians-Sikhs-Jains etc (as given above) who insist on using the Word Allah as the God Creator. Their aqidah is not the least affected.

    Unless the whole Global Muslim Community bans the Word by threats unbeknownst, I think the Malays are being made a laughing stock of the World, by Goons and self-conflicted Ragheads who have revered the Name, but do not revere the Meaning or the Substance, that is Him. In ‘Essence’ that’s the Anxiety, that Others are infringing on their Patency rights, and are therefore passing off Generics as the Real Thing.

    You can tie yourself and any one else up in Legalistic Gordian knots, but many of us understand the ‘confusion’ that is generated by Insistence and Logic of Absurdities. Same like those ‘KJV (King James Version) Only’ Christians who actually can’t understand the archaic English used, but insist nevertheless, for ‘Purity’ sake – or those Jokers that insist that Jesus must be pronounced as Yeshua/Yehoshua etc. Why they can’t read Hebrew or Greek, is never divulged. It’s like saying Brand’s Essence of Chicken is the Only Chicken Essence. No joy there, believe me.

    There is no ‘middle-ground’ in such things. Perhaps we should refer this to WTO or the Hague – although i mean no disrespect or make light of the issue.

    You see at the end of the day, we should know Who we worship or don’t. And He or She or It’s Name is neither important nor created, except by Man. The closest we can get is ‘One Who Exists’ or the Tetragrammaton with it’s infinite meanings.

    Cheers.

  24. Oops, my apologies. The last para should read ‘..Name is neither important and is UTTERED only by Man.’ Sorry about the ‘created’, it must have been Freudian.

  25. On my part CLF, i am refrained to divulge more, ‘b’coz it may lead to a Chasm that’s unbridgeable in human languages….
    Only this, and no more : ” Allah ” is an Identifiable Definitive Entity – a Proper Name of that Entity, and NOT a Generic term as ” God ” , ” Tuhan ” , ” Lord of the Universe “……. the two are different.
    Look, if a Man, any man, chooses to pray & worship a tree, a rock, or the Mountain which spews volcanic ashes ( like in Pagan times ), then THAT BECOMES HIS ” God ” – one may pray & worship the Sea or the Wind, that is ” God ” to him…….
    IF there’s Hidayat, man will understand this – otherwise its No Entry..

  26. Then what you have my friend Abnizar, is an Idol. Making concrete what is Eternal Spirit.
    A name before the Unutterable who said to man’s consciousness:
    “Know that I Am the Lord, your God. You shall no god before Me.”
    Can you translate that into Bahasa without use of loan words, like Arabic?

    We are not talking about the beautiful Names which are mere representations of His Attributes. Your revelation/apocalypse (unveiling) is not mine, much less your position.

    The Jews do not pronounce the Tetragrammaton, and render it ‘mysterious’ and sacred. They use other Names like Elohim (plural), El Shaddai, Adonai etc. Yet they are a people who are very physical, substantive and need to see, feel and savor. As such the ancient Israelis in Exodus, made the Golden calf – and thus erred – as a representation of Moses, while waiting at the foot of Mt. Sinai.

    Interfaith dialogues and Theological discourse does not solve the problem – for the disagreement is in Man’s insistence of the Substantive – not of the Spirit.

  27. The problem is not with The Lord, God ” Allah “, or The Eternal Spirit, my friend. The problem lies with Man. For he knows not what he proclaims & Worship, even if he worships idols/stones, he claims that to be the Image of The Eternal Spirit.

    ” Iblis ” is in spirit form too, and it claims Equal Suzereinty with the ” AUTHENTIC ” Eternal Spirit – Iblis can fake…..of being ” equal “, and Man falls to eternal damnation…….
    Its only the rarest amongst the rare have the capacity for Discernment ! There’s a chapter on this ” The Furqan ” ( or The Discernment )

  28. The storm in the desert has been stirred six centuries before Islam. My opinion on kalimah Allah? The Qu’ran praises Allah. But Al-kitab and the Arab Bible use Allah as something not intended in the original text.

    The Qu’ran is a greatly value book for the Muslims. It is not accepted or believe to be divine by the Christians. The statements of the Qu’ran are only accepted where they agree with the Bible.

    The Bible and Qu’ran are antichrist of each other. The good guys in the Bible are the bad guys in the Qu’ran. The bad guys and antichrist in the Bible are the good guys in the Qu’ran. Each has their own version of Christ, antichrist and Allah.

    Bismillah existed in the Bible. The original text has no praise for Allah, but a warning. The evidence is clear. The Codex Vaticanus contains fragments of the text. Walid Shoebat and some Christians now believe Allah is the mark. The mark is Chi Xi Stigma read in Arabic as Bismillah. It’s gematria is 666. Revelation 13:18.

    Judgement day awaits for those Islam countries who are confederates in attacking Israel. Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38. Read Daniel and Revelation. The outcome does not favor those who take the mark of the beast. The end times prophecy and outcome are in opposite directions between the Bible and Qu’ran. Victory will given to Israel according to the Bible. Victory will be given of Muslims according to Qu’ran. One will attain peace in the eye of the storm. One is experiencing chaos in the storm.

    The cup is in your hands. Your have the powers in your hands to stir or calm the storm. A storm is brewing in the Middle East. Read the Bible prophecies for Israel and the nations. Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38.

  29. Appologies for such delay on my part, but i missed that shawnkwong.
    To quote you : ” Bible & Qura’n are antichrist of each other ” – i can only remember the Vatican, in answer to questions posed by Christians around the world in regard to some verses in the Qura’n , should say in reply : ” The Qura’n & Mohammad (pbh) are anti-Christ….” full.stop. BUT, but it has always been the message of the Qura’n ( and Muhammad pbh ) to the muslim=world ” Pay EQUAL Reverence to ALL the Prophets from Jesus Christ to Moses, to Abraham, to Noah, and beyond … ” all are Children of Israel, make no distinctions amongst them….”
    ” ,,,victory will be given to Israel according to Bible. Victory will be given of Muslims according to
    Qura’n ” – WRONG ! That’s not the ultimate Message in the Qura’n : NOT TO RACE, NOT TO RELIGION, NOT ANY COLLECTIVELY ( Jews, Christians or Muslims ! ! – Please read & understand DESCARTES ( he is a Christain ) : Only ” Individuals ” whose KNOWLEDGE LEADS To God, therein is Salvation ( that’s in the heart of Qura’n ) ( As a muslim, i reiterate this : Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Baroch Spinoza, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Nelson Mandella et.all are CONSIDERED ” Muslims ” in Islam. But Judgement rest entirely by Al’Mighty Lord of the Universe….

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