DAP Election Fiasco and other related issues


January 5, 2013

DAP Election Fiasco and other related issues

Comment: When I was at the Kuala Lumpur Golf and Country Club this afternoon, I was askedtunku-a-aziz by a close friend and former colleague who served with me at a major Malaysian multinational company why I had not posted a thread or two on this blog about recent developments in DAP. He implied that I was biased, and some of his associates even felt that I was on the payroll of DAP.  Nothing is further than the truth.

I have posted articles by former DAP Vice-Chairman and ex-Senator Tunku Abdul Aziz (above) exposing the internal politics of DAP, and from the Malaysian Insider and Malaysiakini  and other websites, which are sometimes critical of DAP. He also wanted to know what my views are on the recent party election fiasco which appeared in the New Straits Times today (read below), DAP’s claim to be multiracial party, and the recent revelation on the Foochow cousins, enfant terrible Ngeh and Nga, in Perak and their business affairs.

The election fiasco has definitely put the DAP in a bad light. It is incredible that this can happen to a party that champions free and fair elections. It is inexcusable and heads must roll after a full investigation is completed. The resignation of its Party Election Director is insufficient to appease the Malaysian public, in particular DAP ordinary members and supporters.

The party leadership must be held fully accountable. DAP Member of Parliament, charles_santiago_021003Charles Santiago (right) puts it correctly when he said.”Just like how we want the Election Commission to explain this and that, those responsible must explain the matter satisfactorily. People want to know how such a thing could have happened.”

Is DAP multiracial party as it claims to be. Having a few Malays in the party leadership does make it so. It is a predominantly Chinese party and that is a fact. But then what about MCA, MIC, Gerakan  and even UMNO. Aren’t they race-based political parties? Indeed they are. So what is the big deal!

Our politics is about race and religion and even our voters choose their respective MPs and ADUNs on the basis of race. That is why in order to more inclusive, we now have Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat  so that the sectarian interests of the various racial groups in our country are represented in coalition politics. I submit that our politics is based on race and will remain for a long time to come.

Ngeh and NgaOn the Foochow cousins, Ngeh and Nga, I recently posted an article by Terence Netto. Theirs is no doubt a case of conflict of interest. It is an example of the nexus between business and politics. DAP and its partners in Pakatan Rakyat claim to champion good governance (Competency, Accountability and Transparency). They must act accordingly, bukan cakap saja (talk only)

That this should happen in DAP, therefore, should be a cause for concern. It shows that even holier than thou politicians in DAP and Pakatan Rakyat are no different from those on the side of our Barisan government who they seek to expose, criticise and condemn. No double standards, please.

So, I expect firm action against the two leaders in DAP Perak.  I have not heard anything from DAP that shows it is prepared to discipline them. Is DAP leadership afraid of these two politicians who run a tight ship on DAP politics in Perak? Like my former colleague and the rest of you, I need some answers.–Din Merican

DAP’s Election Fiasco

by V. Shanker Ganesh and Suganthi Suparmaniam| news@nst.com.my

DAMAGING MISTAKE: Error raises doubts about party’s ability to rule country

DAP is finding itself navigating a sea of criticism after admitting to a party polls mistake and then reinstating a Malay candidate to the last spot in its central executive committee (CEC).

The error has raised doubts about the party’s multiracial stance and placed its ability to administer the country under scrutiny.

But more damaging to the party’s credibility are suggestions that the mistake may just be a ploy to endear the party to Malays after it had come under fire for not electing any Malay to its 20-member CEC at its December 15 congress.

While party leaders defended it as an honest mistake attributed to a glitch when transferring the results calculated using Microsoft Excel, there were members who demanded that they explain how a simple polls to elect 20 people from 68 candidates could have been flawed.

The error had forced the party to revise its election results and place Zairil Khir Johari asZairil Khir Johari the candidate with the 20th most votes.This had led to some quizzing DAP’s locus standi in chastising the Election Commission as it had made a mistake in managing a simple procedure.

DAP is the only political party in the country with a provision in its constitution that denies delegates the right to vote for the top leadership. Delegates get to only elect 20 members to the CEC, which can pick national office-bearers and appoint 10 more CEC members.

Some parties asked if Zairil’s improved ranking was a ploy to attract Malay votes as it would show that delegates had voted a Malay leader to the CEC.His position is academic as he had been appointed as a CEC member despite ending up in 39th spot.

Last month’s results saw the party being bombarded with criticisms regarding its failure to elect Malays. Some long-serving Malay members had voiced their frustration about being overlooked, saying the losses suffered by Malay members showed the party had not lived up to its “Malaysian Malaysia” struggle, meaning members had voted along racial lines.

The criticism had compelled Lim Guan Eng to appoint two of those who lost — Senator Dr Ariffin S.M. Omar and Zairil — to become the party’s Malay representatives in the CEC.

Dr Ariffin, who was also appointed as one of the party’s five Vice-Chairmen, had been vocal in warning DAP not to sideline Malays if it wanted to take over Putrajaya.

Following the error, party election director Pooi Weng Keong yesterday resigned from his post and also as a Federal Territory DAP committee member. Selangor DAP Vice-Chairman Charles Santiago said an “explosive” matter like this needed to be explained to the people.

“Just like how we want the Election Commission to explain this and that, those responsible must explain the matter satisfactorily. People want to know how such a thing could have happened.”

He said while it was good the party had come clean about the mistake, many members were unhappy about it and were “asking many questions”.

A party member, who declined to be identified, said it was ridiculous for such a mistake to happen. “I see it as bending backwards to accommodate Malays in the party. Nothing more.It’s the biggest blunder in DAP’s history.”

Gerakan Deputy President Datuk Chang Ko Youn described the development as a farce and the biggest joke in Malaysian political history. “Is it a means to ensure a Malay is elected to the CEC to deflect public criticism of the non-election of a Malay to the committee?Isn’t that a manipulation of the result? The public is suspicious and amazed by this decision. DAP needs to explain this debacle.”

MIC Youth chief T. Mohan said DAP was abusing its own election process just to attract Malay votes.”This action by DAP has become the joke of the year and the party should be called the Dramatic Action Party.”

He said DAP should have a fresh election rather than appoint a sham committee and auditors to do dirty jobs for Secretary-General Guan Eng. “They are not even able to keep their house clean. Only God knows what else DAP leaders would do if given the power to rule the country.”

Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia Associate Professor Dr Samsul Adabi Mamat said one Malay candidate making it to DAP’s CEC did not change the people’s perception that DAP was a Chinese-dominated party. “One win does not portray the real identity of a party that claims to be multiracial.”

Universiti Teknologi Mara political analyst Associate Professor Dr Shaharuddin Badaruddin said DAP must find out how the error happened. Political analyst Khoo Kay Peng said such an error should not have happened and urged political parties to engage external auditors.

___________________

Here is Lim Kit Siang’s response:

http://www.malaysiakini.com (01-05-12)

Honesty still the best policy over Polls debacle

COMMENT by LIM KIT SIANG: Questions have been raised as to how there could be such a huge “recount” discrepancy and mistake in the DAP Central Executive Committee (CEC) election results where Zairil Khir Johari’s votes for election to the DAP CEC increased by 498 votes from the 305 votes announced on December 15, 2012 to the actual vote of 803 (placing him in the 20th elected position), while Vincent Wu Him Ven could drop 533 votes from the 1,202 votes announced that very day to the actual vote of 669 votes (putting him in the 26th elected position).

The blunder, however, did not arise from any vote counting, as Zairil and Wu’s votes were properly counted and tabulated as 803 and 669 votes respectively but from a computer error resulting in the votes for the last eight candidates (i.e. No. 61 – 68) also being posted with the same votes as those of Candidates Number 31 to 38, as follows, viz:

zahril changed to zairil

As a result, Wu (No. 63) was posted with the votes of No. 33 (i.e. 1,202 votes) and Zairil’s (No. 65) was posted with the votes of No. 36, (i.e. 305 votes) when the actual tabulation should have been 669 for Wu and 803 for Zairil based on the ballots cast and counted at the DAP National Congress. There was no element of fraud, manipulation or dishonesty in vote counting and tabulation process.

lim kit siang dap election ballotThe blunder in the recent DAP CEC election results is a salutary lesson and reminder to all DAP leaders to always remain honest and humble, guided by the wisdom of the saying “Honesty is the Best Policy” if they are to continue to command the trust and confidence of Malaysians.

Despite the sorrow, I can state with pride that although the DAP Central Working Committee and Central Executive Committee were aware that the blunder is deeply embarrassing and would subject the DAP to a ferocious and merciless political and media onslaught, twisting the distorting the issue with baseless insinuations and allegations, no leader had suggested a cover-up of the blunder and the leadership is united that we should tell the truth to the party and the public and face the negative reactions frontally.

Our political antagonists may see this as a weakness for them to try to exploit and divide the party, but this is in fact a strength where the DAP leadership is prepared to own up to and rectify its mistakes however embarrassing they might be because we believe in humility and “Honesty is the Best Policy”.

29 thoughts on “DAP Election Fiasco and other related issues

  1. I must say that the way DAP drove the need for accountability and transparency in others especially in SPRM, merely having the head of election resign is simply just not acceptable, at least to the populace at large, for this party election blunder.

    Similiarly Nga and Ngeh must be corrected and it must be transparent that business and politics shall not mix.

  2. Since the error is discovered, shouldn’t it be corrected, ipso facto? It means Zairil should be rightfully considered as having been ELECTED into the CEC. How come nothing is said about it.

    Admitting a mistake is one thing, but NOT correcting it?

    Can someone explain, please?

    The leadership can quietly ask Vincent Wu to stand down since it is now known he SHOULDN’T be in the CEC at all. That would be personal embarrassment for Vincent Wu since he is in the CEC due to some tabulating error.

    If he is worth his salt, and to save his face, he should stand down from the CEC.

    That should be the right thing to do… unless Vincent WU is just another thick skinned, unscrupulous opportunistic DAP wannabe politician.

    Shit does happen.. even in DAP!!

  3. The DAP delegates are fools for putting in the Nga-Ngeh cousins from Perak into the CEC.

    These fellas are operating like those MCA crony-towkays, with their business links and political connections to enrich themselves. Not only that, politically they stride around with an arrogant smirk in their faces.

    They should not be selected for the nextg GE and if they do, they shouldnot get the votes from their constituency at all at the next GE

    They are an absolute liability, the way they behaved in the last four years

  4. Yup, shit happens Frank.
    But to blame Windows Excel, is lame.. If it’s human error, just admit it. And take the fall. irregardless of the consequences. That’s what integrity is about.
    I find it incomprehensible that a party that places so much emphasis on transparency and accountability take so long to rectify a mistake. LGE too has his cronies and lapdogs. The only ones who has any semblance of personal integrity and honesty are LKS, Dr CMH, Dr TSG and of course, Karpal S. – the old guard.
    As for the cousins, they are just as MCA-Gerakan creatures are.

  5. This reflects poorly on the way the party elections were handled.

    Buck up DAP ! The future of social democracy and its ideals in Malaysia
    depend on you.

  6. Was there really an error had taken place ,if there are why it was not corrected immediately considering the number of vote involved it’s ain’t much at all.
    This is another mind game played by DAP to show to the worlds that they had principle and strong believer of honesty in their undertaking but their pre arrange “wayang” didn’t worked well.
    Zaharil or any other Malay being elected to the DAP cec is not much of an issue since DAP single race dominated party but claim to be multiracial unlike UMNO,MCA and MIC which are registered as racial base party, but other issue in DAP and it’s members make them resort to this “wayang” to get back people trust.

  7. Frank, Nga-Ngeh will be DAP’s biggest liability – it was obvious from the start but they played their cards well with Guan Eng, and that’s why he is saying nothing. First, Kit Siang has to go to allow Guan Eng to face the others on his own merits/demerits. Then these two cousins – keep them and the DAP is finished this time in Perak, for starters. PKR and PAS have bad company

  8. my opinion is that after ngeh-nga being called upon by dap’s diciplinary-kangaroo court (if ever they will be called), the usual outcome is that ngeh-nga is as clean as newborn.remember perak’s official uniform contract given to nga’s wife-linked company even their price is the highest?

    you see,when it came to greed for money they no longer related to skin colour,race,politic affiliation or even religion. its just human,individuals.

  9. What surprise me about all the ballyhoo is that no one has pointed out that DAP did not rig their election to get a Malay in CEC nor did they avoid the embarassment of making the mistake of keeping a Malay out in the first place.

    You have to wonder what the Malaysian character is having little faith is a neutral and impartial system. Perhaps the reason why we have such a screw up system of bad judiciary, corruption, bad schools, etc. etc. is we have little faith in impartial systems and we are not willing to accept our natural faith and our just due and deep within our psyche confused the difference between self-preservation and selfishness.

  10. Yes indeed “…resorting to this ‘ wayang ‘ to get back people’s trust….” – ex post facto, this is seen as a clever ploy to appease people’s earlier frusterations and/or negative perception about DAP’s posturing of being a Democratic party, when the whole lot of them made it their ‘deliberate’ strategy to EXCLUDE a Malay from all Closed-Door-Sessions in their Decision making Process… True, it was deliberate, and now a clever “clever” cover-up…..
    At least, BN components, although most indulge in Corrupt practices, consist of foolish representatives playing the immaturist ‘ racial’ game of politics…open for everyone to see… and condemn…

  11. Do the Foochow cousins Ngeh and Nga both “tersenggeh” and “terngangga” have the blessing of PAS leadership in Kelantan and Nik Aziz for the timber concession fiasco in Gua Musang??…

    So what Islamic fundamentals these so-called ‘ulamaks’ from PAS are harping instead and approving timber concessions to their fellow culprits in PR in exchange for the MB post??…I guess religion and politics do mix with business for these hypocrites.

  12. DAP and LGE got to be careful what they do or say . Because of high expectations from voters, DAP will be the FOCUS of the spotlight as the general election draws nearer in less than three months.

    Even a small slip of the tongue or a minorm misjudgment call by DAP LEADERS will be magnified many times over both by supporters and critics.And they cost valuable votes to win government.

    UMNO-BN is fighting tooth and nails to retain the phantom voters, expanding postal votes and creating more instant citizens from illegal immigrants, to hold on to power. And they definitely are in the race to win.

    So, DAP admitting error is NOT good enough, it has to AVOID, PRE-EMPT and PREVENT making silly blunders because, in the eyes of Malaysians, DAP and its Pakatan partners are UNTESTED entities in managing the nation’s valuable resources.

    Good performance in the governance of Penang by DAP is NOT a sufficient yardstick to convince voters DAP has the necessary wherewithals to manage a nation.

    So, DAP and LGE, don’t ACT STUPID or BE STUPID.

    Secondly,

    DAP-PAS relationship on religious issues is still a BIG and MAJOR worry for BOTH Muslims and NON-Muslim voters. This issue might be the cutting edge to determine whether Pakatan Rakyat will win PUTRAJAYA in the coming general election OR NOT.

    PAS’s recalcitrant and conflicting stand on HUDUD, on the word Allah, and its weird fundamentalist on concerts and sex segregation in public places are sure-fire VOTE LOSERS… especially so in urban and semi urban seats where PAS stands against UMNO.

    There is NOTHING DAP can do about PAS’s stand on these divisive religious once liberal Malays and nonmuslms have made up their minds NOT to vote PAS candidates AT ALL.

    PAS candidates like Khalid Samad and others who got through in 2008 with nonmuslim and liberal Malay votes in the towns and city in the Klang Valley and elsewhere have REAL cause for worry if the PAS leadership cannot see the woods from the trees. DAP is of no help in such situation either.

    LIkewise, PAS and Hadi Awang and his Arab-looking robe and turban-wearing colleagues should NOT ACT STUPID or BE STUPID in the next three months.

  13. Correction

    PAS’s recalcitrant and conflicting stand on HUDUD, on the word Allah, and its weird fundamentalist STAND on concerts and sex segregation in public places are sure-fire VOTE LOSERS… especially so in urban and semi urban seats

  14. After all the hew and cry over the lack of Malay leadership in DAP the DAP leaders decided to make a story that there was technical counting error during the CEC Election and after correcting the mistake and after a recount anak Khir Johari is included in the CEC of DAP. What a joke!

    I am sure before the CEC Election there was what we usually call a “dry run” on the CEC Election to make sure that everything should go perfect during the Election like the Rocket going to the moon.
    The correction was done to show to the general Malaysians, the voters and the whole World that DAP was not racialist and not representing the Chinese only when in fact it is.
    DAP should change its motto to Dia Amat Penipu (He is great liar).

  15. Its not a computer error,its a human error. garbage in garbage out. Yes its good to be honest and admit it and good to ensure proper guidelines in place for future elections. DAP deserve the crap they are getting on this cos they comment about others but unable to conduct simple party election without an error like this.as for the Foochow cousins, I believe the DAP need to take strong measures to make sure they the cousins are given clear warning and divest their interest or quit being MPs/ADUNs. Some of DAP reps are acting like Diva and taikors, time they listen to Karpal and LKS

  16. I still don’t get it why it took so long to come out with this revelation when it was reported the Chairman of the AGM knew about the “vote counting error” the night itself after the results were announced! Even if they had decided to get an external auditor, it won’t take that long, they should have addressed it the next day! And to even mention Microsoft Excel, adoi….

    Just the same for Nga and Ngeh… it is taking too long and seen to be foot dragging and like a week is a long time in politics, said Tun Mahathir, and even if the DAP takes a good decision, it will still be seen as foot-dragging and like it or not, seen as attempts at covering up for these two LGE blue-eyed boys from Perak…

    I have been informed by friends the voters are beginning to be very restless with these Nga Ngeh scandals – first the acceptance of datoship against party guidelines, then then tailorgate scandal and now this land deal.

    I have supported DAP since 2008 and I am beginning to lose my own patience… and I even sense the “arrogance” now coming out from the party and the elected reps… and I also hinted this to YB Liew Chin Tong thru Twitter DMs… I realise many DAP reps are on Twitter but to trumpet their agenda and achievements, very few actual interact nor even follow the rest of the tweeps… except for @HannahYeoh and @LiewChin Tong @GobindSinghDeo, even @cmlimguaneng is a one-way twitter account, non-interactive!! The worse of the twitter account is @limkitsiang… semua pronouncements saja…. follow only 1 person, his son!

  17. DAP’s CAT is nothing but a joke and their Msian Malaysia nothing but an empty slogan. Their leaders like Nga & Ngeh are no different than those crooks in UMNO/BN while other leaders like Ronnie Liu, Teresa Kok, Lee Kee Hiong, Tony Pua have serious question marks on their integrity.

    The thing about DAP now is that they think Putrajaya is a done deal come GE13 and their arrogance will be the downfall of the party come GE13.

    GE13 ……
    Penang will go back to PR but with a reduced majority.
    Perak will go back to BN
    Selangor will go back to BN
    Kedah – BN
    Kelantan – PAS/PR

    DAP will be taught a lesson. LKS/LGE & Karpal …. please come back with leaders of intergrity and really show us the voters you people are serious about Msian Malaysia.

    Own party elections also cannot be BERSIH …. dont even dream of Putrajaya.

    I voted for PR in the last GE. This time I am voting BN.

  18. First of all, let us be clear on one issue. UMNO, MCA and MIC, the three dominant political parties in Barisan are race-based parties. GERAKAN is a multi-racial party. DAP claimed to be a multi-racial democratic party. The difference is abundantly clear. There is no need for further explanation unless Malaysians quibble over the definition of race.

    Secondly, l agree with you that Malaysians are not ready for a truly Malaysian-based political party. Just look at GERAKAN and you might conclude that its objective is unlikely to be met, not in a hundred years. Why? Talk to me about nation building.

    Thirdly, the three dominant parties in Barisan have never called themselves a multi-racial party. DAP did.

    Once we are clear with the above, let’s look at the fiasco. I used to watch beauty pageants on TV. The result of the winners is in an envelope. A senior member of an external audit firm will hand over the envelope to the MC. If DAP cannot afford one, l am pretty sure internal auditors could have verified the results, before it is announced. Did they? Question number one. Two, the Election Director, found the discrepancies the next day and he reported to the SG. Why didn’t he make a report to the CEC or at least to the inner cabinet of CEC, if there is one? Next, why did the SG only announce the so-called discrepancies 19 days after the election results were announced which clearly showed that there were no Malays that were voted in. Blaming MS is so childish. I am pretty sure that the Election Director is not a dinosaur.

    I am equally sure that DAP CEC would have made it clear that anyone responsible over the election office are well-tuned in computers. Is this a case of garbage in garbage out. A big discrepancy. A variance as big as what was announced calls for the cancellation of the entire results. No statistician in his right mind would have accepted the results.

    I can go on and on, but suffice to say that KS, LKS and LGE’s explanations over this fiasco are not just good enough. There are bigger issues behind this fiasco. I do not like to speculate.
    __________
    Thanks for your input. Dato Jaffar Onn tried to create a multiracial party but failed to convince UMNO; he resigned. What a difference it would have made to politics in Malaysia. Race is not ideology. At least you know where I stand on politics. I don’t take sides, although in 2007-2009 I was associated with the Pakatan Rakyat coalition. I shared with many the view that Badawi was a disaster for our country, and worked to ensure his “defeat”–losing 2/3rd majority and Selangor, Kedah, Kelantan and Perak– in 2008. Mahathir did the same thing. –Din Merican

  19. While some of you, such as “XXyyZZ “, “Ibnu Baltazar”,” tebing tinggi” and especially the half-baked smart-ass, “Adam Abdullah”, are commenting as though high on ecstacy pills, cocaine, heroin and crack-ice pillz condemning DAP, THE FACT REMAINS DAP is still a PARTY far far better than ANY of the parties in BN especially, UMNO, MCA and MIC.

    The only person who argued his case pretty well and clearly in putting his views across,, in all this, is Syed Tamim Ansari Syed Mohamed.

    The rest are just wanting to give a kick in the HEAD at DAP. Even that “I am Malay first and Malaysian second” pea-brained DPM joined in to give his two-cent piece.

    Although it is an internally related blunder, still DAP leaders, including LGE deserve a good kick in the BUTT on this issue. They MUST live up to the standards they set for themselves and for others.

  20. Just to add to Frank’s opinion, i think DAP ought to put a kinder, less ‘Tan-Cho’ like image for their leaders. Of course, it may have been a response to the belligerency by UMNO-BN in the past, but i feel they now have the gravitas to appeal in a softer manner. Anyway, i think this will all blow over – much faster and less damaging than the Raja Popiah fiasco and Cow-Condo Rojak show.

    It’ll be quite a day if UMNO kicks out MCA and take in DAP as the senior partner into coalition. Stranger things have happened yet – and yeah, i’m waiting for Parousia.

  21. Dear Frank,I do agree with you,if you champion something noble,then let’s just correct what’s wrong and stop giving stupid excuses, does the DAP wants teh people’sa support,then LKS,LGE,Karpal n top leaders must walk the talk, no Political party in this whole wide world are clean or innocent enough,n that’s a Forking Fact…Oouch!!!

  22. No, no….it was a Blunder By Design even before the Voting began.
    But the bigger blunder was trying to do the damage-control after the damage was done….DAP should have carried through with the ‘ Design” , and nobody would have got any wiser….a storm in tea-cup would have fizzled off without fuss.

  23. Blunder By Design -Ibnu Baltazar

    What?? Blunder By Design ??

    How do you design blunder?? A blunder is an outcome you DON’t expect. If that is what DAP expected the outcome, then you don’t call that a blunder.

    Only a cuckoo-head would like to have an “expected blunder”.

    You should have said it as an “outcome by design ”

    Bad choice of words.

  24. Maybe at this point of time DAP may lose a battle but not the war.The jailing of Anwar was designand it was a blunder for him and family. The sacking of Salleh Abbas was design and it was a blunder to the Malaysian judiciary.

  25. Frank, only NOW they call it a blunder, human error & what not….but the ‘ design ‘ in the election process from the beginning was for all the predominant voters to EXCLUDE a Malay into the CEC at ‘ all cost ‘ – do you see the point ?
    The first ‘ blunder’ was still ok, if DAP let it pass. But the Second blunder in their attempt to ‘ rectify’ & do a recount, that made it look ‘ awfull ‘ , don’t you think so, friend ? I still stick to my point, that the whole Election process was a ” blunder by design ” to Exclude….that’s motive….

  26. Ibnu Baltazar,
    Don’t go flogging a dead horse. Just say oops, sorry and move on. I don’t see you winning on this one.

  27. Ibnu Baltazar.

    You still don’t get my drift. You don’t design blunder. You design to achieve an outcome.

    A blunder is a negative outcome which you have NOT planned for or design for. Its what my neighbour likes to say when he got caught with a mistress by his children. Another way of saying it is “shit happens”.

    And if the blunder has a multiplier effect, like when my neighbour got caught red handed with his pants down with another woman , He calls it ” now shit hits fan”.

    See what I mean?

  28. ok, but its DAP who admits the process is an error, human error , a mistake,,,,so yes, i could have said ” error ” or “mistake by Design….” ? It means the same thing, the so-called mistake was by ” design ” ( although i had used ‘blunder’ in place of mistake or error….hair-splitting really )

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