Media Statement from President, Catholic Bishops of Malaysia
May 10, 2011
“Allowing the debate over which race or religion wielded precedence in the matter of who is qualified to become a holder of high office in the country is fundamentally disorienting.We should not allow the debate to revolve obsessively around these parochial considerations.
I’m not saying these are not important considerations; only that after a half century of our independence, if we are going to be fixated on them, we would divert from what is more important at this stage – a person’s intellectual and moral fiber for high office. It is a sign of mediocrity in people when they allow their intellectual and moral stature to be subsumed under identity politics.” –Catholic Bishop Dr Paul Tan Chee Ing, Melaka-Johor Diocese
Media Statement from President, Catholic Bishops of Malaysia- May 7, 2011
On behalf of the Catholic Bishops of Malaysia, I would like to categorically refute the allegation that such a meeting had taken place or will take place in a Catholic venue in Penang. It is clear that this reporting is baseless and highly irresponsible as the reporters and editors of the above newspaper have not taken any reasonable steps whatsoever to verify the allegations made by anonymous bloggers.
Furthermore, this report comes after the National Evangelical Christian Fellowship (NECF), one of the organizers of the above meeting, having refuted the claims of those bloggers and the same was carried on online media. The NECF has further clarified that this meeting only covered the topic of ethical leadership and had no treasonous agenda as alleged by the bloggers and news report.
It is clear that such reporting has the effect of creating religious disharmony, inciting hatred and heaping odium on Christians. We therefore call upon the authorities and the police to immediately make a thorough investigation of this matter to determine the source of these insidious, provocative and malicious lies and to take the necessary action against those who seek to threaten the multi-cultural and multi-religious harmonious make-up in this country.
We, Christians constantly pray for good governance by political and civil authorities. We also teach our people to be God fearing, law abiding citizens and conscientious decision makers based on justice which is reflective of moral and divine laws. In the recent statements of the Christian Federation of Malaysia (CFM) regarding the Al-Kitab issue, we had always reiterated our commitment and readiness to dialogue and work together with the government and all parties for a just and reasonable solution. It is clear that our position has never been treasonous nor have we advocated hatred, antagonism or animosity towards any religion or groups of persons.
I continue to call upon all Catholics, Christians and all Malaysians to pray, dialogue and work together to strengthen national unity and harmony. May God bless our leaders with a firm vision and the courage and strength to uphold and realise it.
Tan Sri Datuk Murphy Nicholas Pakiam DD
Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur
President, Catholic Bishops of Malaysia
7th May 2011
When I was growing up in Alor Setar in the ’50s, relations between Muslims and Christians in this country were good. It is obvious that times have changed; we have attained economic progress but not for the better in terms of religious tolerance and race relations. In fact, on this score, we have regressed because we are playing the “politics of differentiation”. Let us, therefore,…”work together to strengthen national unity and harmony” (Tan Sri Datuk Murphy Nicholas Pakiam DD).
dinobeano - May 10, 2011 at 2:44 pm
” May God bless our leaders with a firm vision and the courage and strength to uphold and realise it .” – Tan Sri Datuk Murphy Nicholas Pakiam, Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur.
Considering all the abuse that has been discharged on Non-Muslims , especially the Christians, by the morons in UMNO , PERKASA , PEMBELA and UTUSAN – the Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur can still find it in his heart to ask ” GOD TO BLESS OUR LEADERS WITH A FIRM VISION AND COURAGE AND STRENGTH …. “.
I find this quite outstanding and rather magnanimous , coming from a Christian leader, at a time like this . I wonder what Din and his other friends here think ?
__________
Salimah,
The Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur who I met together Imam Feisal Rauf of the Cardoba Center, New York a few years ago at the Bloggers Haven in Damansara Heights is a man of religion and peace. It is second nature to such a person to pray to His God for the well being of our leaders and our wonderful country. My views on the matter are best summed up by the quote from the Bishop, Melaka-Johor Diocese.–Din Merican
salimah hassan - May 10, 2011 at 3:24 pm
Salimah,
A good religious person would always wish for the best even to their enemies. In fact that’s the way to go. Prophet Muhammad taught us to treat people with respect regardless of race and religion, we should all strive to be that way. Alas, some people pick and choose which teachings of Islam to be use and to be left out.
didi - May 10, 2011 at 3:37 pm
His comments from the teaching of Jesus (pbuh) of ” hold to forgiveness, do unto others as you want others to do unto you, love thy enemies. This is also the teaching of our own Prophet. Do we Muslims know these teachings? NO. They have neglected to learn from Nabi Isa. Therefore the majority will see this act of the Bishop as outstanding. It is actually the teaching of Nabi Isa.
kathy - May 10, 2011 at 3:43 pm
“..topic of ethical leadership and had no treasonous agenda..”
But, but.. your Grace, ethical leadership IS considered treasonous by these, er.., mentally challenged God’s creatures.
C.L. Familiaris - May 10, 2011 at 3:54 pm
Whenever BN’s mouthpiece Utusan incites racial hatred against non-nuslims, all right minded rakyat have to be calm and analyse what is the objective Utusan is trying to achieve and who is the target of this piece of news.
News is Targeted at who? :
My two sens worth of observation is that this news is targeted at Malays who are not well grounded in Malaysia’s constitution especially those in PAS . Utusan knows that this type of news will create a reaction from the leaders of PAS who will respond that Utusan’s news is lies and that its not stated in the constitution that the PM must be a malay, which is a fact. However most of the rakyat (all races include ) but especially Malays who live in the rural areas who are not well versed with Malaysia’s constitution and who has been fed UMNO/BN/Perkasa propaganda for so long thinks otherwise
What is the Objective ?
But why is Utusan, the mouthpiece of UMNO using such drastic gutter tactics to create disharmony and animosity against non-Malays?
Utusan wants PAS to respond to show the Malays that PAS is not on the side of the Malays while Utusan as a mouthpiece of UMNO is a defender of Malay rights. UMNO = Malay Champion, period. With this strategy, UMNO is desperate in trying to woo back Malays voters by using fear tactics ; fear of Malay rights being ursurped by pendatangs !
Looks like reason for this is that UMNO is preparing for the next GE by starting a propaganda war based on racial lines to win back the hearts of the Malays who is in the opposition. It can be predicted that such distasteful reporting that incites racial tension will increase in tempo in the coming months leading up to the next GE.
We hope that all right minded rakyat will remain level-headed and not be sucked in by such ploys played -up by UMNO and its mouthpiece Utusan.
patriot - May 10, 2011 at 5:16 pm
Catholic Bishop Paul Tan feels ” ….. a person’s intellectual and moral fibre ” is more important then his race or religion, when aspiring for ” high office ” at this stage of Malaysia’s history.
Like Din, i too agree with this . But is there anyone in UMNO , PERKASA, PEMBELA, UTUSAN or even Barisan that can fit ? There are only hooligans , petty thieves , religious perverts and bigots, and corrupt lairs who will mislead the Malays for personal gain, in their midst. Even al kutty , great as he may think himself to be , cannot fit because he was nothing more then a scum and a petty thief, like all the others.
salimah hassan - May 10, 2011 at 5:21 pm
The Christians are so magnanimous, they have always been : In the midst of the quabble over their claim of right to use ALLAH in their Holy Book – The Bible -, our Christian bretherens came up with this highly ecstatic & breath-taking sublimations :
” ALLAH ITU KASIH…..”
Is’nt that a sign that they desrve it better than those who preach that God AlMighty is God of vengence ?
Abnizar7 - May 10, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I must make clear my own comment. Nabi Isa (pbuh)is one of our Prophets. Nabi Isa taught , “Hold to forgivenes”, Nabi Isa taught , “Love thy enemies”, Nabi Isa taught , Do unto others as you would have others do unto you”. This is taught by our Nabi Isa and if we claim to be moslems then we must follow this teaching too. But we moslems dont do we? We have never learnt what Nabi Isa ( Pbuh) taught. So we are amazed that the Bishop has this level of love in his heart towards those that injure and hurt him. We moslems have never learnt the teachings of Nabi Isa (pbuh).
kathy - May 10, 2011 at 6:39 pm
I was having my regular teh tarek session and the guys sitting at the enxt table were talking loud about how ppl like Hishammuddin Hussein is brainless and clueless and only wants to win the rural Malay votes at all cost and then a pastor from a local church, also sitting nearby had this to say to the group, “forgive them my brothers, for they know not what is love which can bring them more votes. Pray that they realize this one day and in the meantime, let us forgive and give them all our love”.
Sentinel - May 10, 2011 at 6:59 pm
That is why I would like to refer back to your earlier quotable quote, kathy, from Khalil Gibran’s ” Spirits Rebellious” :
” God has no desire to be worshipped by
an ignorant man….
So worship not if there is no love in the heart !
Abnizar7 - May 10, 2011 at 7:23 pm
What insight
“It is a sign of mediocrity in people when they allow their intellectual and moral stature to be subsumed under identity politics.” Catholic Bishop Dr. Paul Tan Chee Ing.
What conviction & authority there is in these Christian Bishops statements of late…may have to give Christianity a Serious Second Look !!!
and
Why do I have the impression that
“a localised worm is pretending to be a Dragon and trying to pick a fight with the International Star of a Knight in Shining Armour St. George !!!”
Hidup Malaysia !!!
fairplay - May 10, 2011 at 8:22 pm
You and i have (not share) the same God, Abnizar, though our traditions and liturgy are different. Notwithstanding the ‘idea’ of the God of Abraham. There are however those who worship gods who are like themselves, an anthropomorphic entity of dos and donts, as if possibility is an evil thing.
Kat, good to do comparative religion. The path is ‘widing’ to say the least, but understanding makes Life more vivid and vibrant. Just ton’t become overly Esoteric, until Gnostic. He is always with us. He is omnipresent.
C.L. Familiaris - May 10, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Before all these Ulamas and “I know best” people make their next move they need to ask, am I exhibiting that Islam is a caring religion?
The Christians have priests and pastors visiting sick people in hospital and saying a prayer for their recovery, The Christians have convents and ophranages for children, schools and hospitals to care for the needy. How often do you see an Imam visiting a sick person and a non Muslim at that. Treat them with kindness and they’ll come over to your way not treat them with hostilities.
semper fi - May 10, 2011 at 9:59 pm
“WE Christians ……. ” Archibsihop of Kuala Lumpur
That is one expression you will not find used here in a country which separates religion from state. That, however, does not mean the free exercise clause of the First Amendment is meaningless.
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:05 pm
If Malaysia has the equivalent of the 5th and 14th Amendments then it would help draw the boundaries when use crosses over and becomes abuse.
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:08 pm
The Christians have pastors visiting the sick …. How often do you see imans (doing the same) — Semper
Perhaps the difference is between the Old and the New? Is the difference between the God of the Old Testament seen as a cruel and punishing God, One that nuked cities (with everybody in them – children and women) and brought floods to drown every living thing so He could build all over again, or a loving God that gave his only Son to suffer so we could have another chance at eternal life?
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:19 pm
Is it not thought provoking, not Chrisitan that a pastor when questioned if he agrees that Osama bin Laden is evil only says it is not for him to judge (if Osama was evil). But his acts, the priest says, are eviil.
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:31 pm
Bionic Bean
You were treated at St. Joseph and St Michael Hospitals not Omar Al Khattab or Osman Ibni Affan hospitals or do the hospital exists?
I am part of an interfaith group that visit the sick and elderly regardless of their belief and I find it very rewarding. It has also allowed me to present a different perspective of Islam to the others and each time they said thank you I feel fulfilled.
semper fi - May 10, 2011 at 10:33 pm
But let’s not forget it wasn’t too long ago that Christians were putting to the sword infidels in the name of God in numbers that today would be classified as genocide. Islamic radicals today are not too far behind – only some 400 years separate them.
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:37 pm
But then Semper, you’re a trail blazing Muslim pioneering new ways so others could follow.
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:39 pm
The genesis of racial and religious divide in Malaysia begins with none other than the Great Divider, Mathathir.
Even before the country was at the tender age of 10, he had been accusing the Tunku of favouring the Chinese. Mahathir has a big hand in the May 13 incident, which was a plot that successfully disposed the Tunku as the PM of Malaysia and the President of UMNO.
It was during Mahathir’s tenure as prime minister that he introduced the dichotomy of bumi and non-bumi. He fuddled with the judicial system by having different jurisdiction for different religion and thus weakened the civil system of the judiciary. In order to get his one-upmanship over PAS he unilaterally declared Malaysia as an Islamic state. Unruly behaviour such as body snatching, uncontrollable use of fatwas, robbing the poor Malays of their dignity to pay the UMNO Malays and non-Malay cronies were the legacies of his evil rule. The social contract was confused as an entitlement for UMNO-Malays and the interest of the original orang asli and other groups were ignored. It should be noted that Malaysia comprises of different races and the social contract is that every race should contribute to the wellbeing of the country. The harmony that the country had after his ascendancy was shattered beyond repair.
To make matter worse, he sponsored the establishment of Perkasa, the extreme racist UMNO-Malay right-wing group to tear the fabric of the country and to bring back the country into the feudal system.
Mahathir is the worst enemy and a traitor to Malaysia. His attempt to destroy Malaysia and to revert to a feudal state was the worst form of treason against the people of Malaysia. He murdered the folk-based UMNO for his own greed and power-hungry lust and substituted it with the UMNO Baru, the Ali Baba elitist party.
vsp - May 10, 2011 at 10:45 pm
King Arthur put his life on the line and went fighting the Crusades to stop the march of the infidels in far away Holy City only to find upon his return, his trusted companion Sir Lancelot had acted out the Christian call to ‘love thy neighbor’ with his Lady Guinevere.
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:46 pm
The Christian way – love and forgiveness rather than punishment.
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 10:56 pm
Mr Bean - May 10, 2011 at 11:03 pm
What are you drinking today bean? Can i have some ?
kristiana - May 10, 2011 at 11:13 pm
Good for you, semper!
Selfless Love has has no ‘Religion’.
Interfaith dialogue is always possible and ecumenism is human civilization at it’s best. However, in this blighted country, it is seen as ‘Evil’ and ‘Intolerable’ by inbred supremacists (or is it due to bad shepherding).
There is absolutely no need to fear “Christianity” – if the dakwa are as well organized and the Muslims are well grounded. It’s a matter of conscience and it seems to me that the “fear” is actually an admission of inability by the Islamic authorities to get their priorities right. Although i do have reservations on some of my over-enthusiastic evangelical brethren, that’s the nature of competing “Word”.
As for Octo, his preferences and his prejudices, yes, we too are not to judge. His acts though, have torn this country asunder. Malicious acts we can judge, but not their intent, for everything is under the will of Allah.
Cheers.
C.L. Familiaris - May 10, 2011 at 11:20 pm
Bionic Bean
A Muslim is a Muslim in my book, none of those good Muslim or Bad Muslim or trail blazing Muslim. We want others to treat us good so we need to treat others the same. People of different religion have differing views of their calling. However it all boils down to one message and one God regardless of what we call him.
As for Lance a lot he broke the “thy shall not tempt thy neighbors wife” and he was also seduced by Queen Guiv. He was also fulfilling his duties to the Queen while the King is away.
semper fi - May 10, 2011 at 11:56 pm
Bionic Bean
Pastor Beck views are thought provoking Yes. Does the death of Osama ends all that he stood for? Will all this Homeland Security and Transportation Safety checks at airports end? So Pastor Beck is right, what are these people celebrating? The death of someone not his belief which will still go on among his believes and supporters. Is Osama for real or is he a bogeyman?
semper fi - May 11, 2011 at 2:36 am
Semper,
When I watched the video of O-sama in his living room all wrapped in a blanket looking old and frail, enjoying seeing TV images of himself, feeling elated at the thought that he had brought the Great Satan (read: USofA) to his knees, I couldn’t help but laugh with him (rather than at him) So this is supposed to be the most wanted criminal in the world worthy of a US25 million reward (the face of terror) living off goats’ milk in one of the most valued real estate said to be worth a few million US dollars?? And this here is the command and control center and bunker which puts him in touch with the world’s terrorist network, with a couple of couriers ferrying hand coded messages riding donkeys??
Gimme a break, USofA !!
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 3:44 am
About God’s 10 Commandments made to Moses some more than 2,000 years ago.
The 10th Commandment says, “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant and nor his female servant, nor his donkey ….. (in that order)”
Male servant and donkey?? Even the donkey is not safe!
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 3:51 am
Hi CLF, Ot not merely comparative. If the moslems claim to follow the Koran, then the teachings of Moses and Jesus (pbu them) must be followed. Nabu Muhammad came and confirmed the teachings of the Messengers of God ( pbu them all). The moslem world are busy calling others kafir yet they know not that others are followers of their own Nabi, Musa and Isa . They neglect to learn and seek,yet are the first to call others kafir. How foolish and idsparaging and disrespectful to .
And Yes Abnizar that quote by the great Kahlil Gibran sums it all doesnt it. That is why the command of God , SEEK!
kathy - May 11, 2011 at 6:21 am
Look at World-poverty scenario brought out by Prof K.S Jomo, so sad & gloomy for all of human race….
Yet a ray of hope by the untiring efforts of the Christian West, particularly in trying to uplift human-kind from despair.
Were they not present when Tsunamies hit half the world, famine, disaster & earthquakes everywhere, pestilence, poverty & hunger in Africa the great floods in Pakistan..not to mention climatic-change disasters in the north & south poles – all these that we are ungratefull for, for not wanting to acknowledge that WE are all ” indebted ” to them ?
Notwithstanding these, voices of desperation still implore your good deeds in the way you have cherished in your philosophy of ” LIVING LIFE TO THE FULLEST ” viz, your great hunger & adventure for quest of knowledge through Scientific Endeavours to try & uplift human poverty that beset the world – FOR, REAL WEALTH IS KNOWLEDGE – monies & other forms of wealth are secondary !
Even if that be not so for the ” hungry mouths of the world ” at the present – it will be for the future….
Abnizar7 - May 11, 2011 at 7:46 am
Georgie thought in the most of simplistic of terms and to him, “If you’re not with me, then you must be against me” i.e. until it came to Pakistan.
Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979 coined the expression “The Great Satan” to refer to the good old USofA and referred to the USofA as the snake. But today some ask if the head of the snake was not cut off in Abbottabad, Pakistan? Others ask if Satan had not acted more like the drill sergeant when tempting Job, preparing for worse things to come.
While we debate the real identity of this Great Satan, life goes on, says our bloghost.
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 7:58 am
What are you drinking, Bean? Can I have some? — Kristiana
The milk of human kindness. You want some?
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 8:14 am
Who is “Kau” here?
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 8:47 am
Wow Mongkut Bean have moved on to Ruth. BTW she’s the sister to Kris Dayanti who just remarried.
With all this paranoia about Christians, any wonder why more young Malay Muslims are converting to Christianity? They are treated with respect and accepted by the community whereas the Muslim community will treat them as outcast. Then the Malay Muslims will fight tooth and nail in court trying to “rehabilitate” and bring them back to Islam “the Malaysian version” at the same time belittling and shameing them. What hipocracy.
semper fi - May 11, 2011 at 9:35 am
What Ruth, SemperFi?
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 11:02 am
With the Bishop there is not much that can be done. With the Knight you can Knight fork the Queen and checkmate the King – the way Sir Lancelot did.
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 11:23 am
That’s one thing the Bishops of Malaysia cannot hope to do i.e. checkmate the Muslim King.
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 11:26 am
Is that not political correctness?
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 11:29 am
Wow…the songs of love in Chris Dayanti & Ruth Sahanaya….they really spike our emotions to the height of ” intoxication ” !
But slow-down….. ” Haram ” ! was the edict issued that what was melodious is to be banned !
Hail Indonesia for their liberty, at least we can adore these two nightingales of International fame : please put joy into hearts of many of your fans….
Abnizar7 - May 11, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Remember Kartika? The Malay gal who almost got whipped for drinking beer. Her autistic son passed away a few days ago. Imagine who were there to console her?
No, not the so-called hypocrites who wanted to bring her to the path of righteousness but NGOs led by non-Muslims.
This is what religious freedom is about in Bolehland. When we need them they all go missing. Yet they have the balls to tell you what’s right and what’s wrong.
Harussani was no where near her house in K Kangsar. Give him half a chance to preach he’ll blabber away the whole night thru.
Tok Cik - May 11, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Datuk Mat Zain , the retired senior police officer, says the datuk T trio defiled the mosque by wearing bullet proof vests when appearing in the mosque to attend Eskay’s ” sumpah ” ceremony.
He further added that Eskay felt safer and more at ease ” IN A BROTHEL THEN IN A MOSQUE “. hahahahahah… .
Read all about it in the Malaysian Insider . Datuk Mat Zain , terima kasih – you made my day … hahahahahahahah.
arokiasamy - May 11, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Tok Cik ,
Thanks for bringing to us the story about Kartika’s son. Our sympathies go to her .
As for the hypocrites , let the unenlightened figure this out themselves. Afterall, if they feel more at ease in a brothel then in a mosque , then i am not surprised.
kristiana - May 11, 2011 at 12:46 pm
In the 21st century, we are still debating about some desert people’s wishful dreams imagined some 1,500-2000 years ago. These fairy tale books were written long after their founders had died or crucified and many of the writings are whims and fancies of their followers with little or no grain truth from what the founders of the religions actually said.
As far as God is concerned, He is having a good laugh at the nonsense in Malaysia (if He bothers to look down from up there). God is still trying answers on how to stop tsunamis and earthquakes instead of worrying about the stupid and silly squabbles of irrelevant mortals living in a small piece of real estate called Malaysia.
Come on… move on to some other more secular topics for God’s sake… like how to teach your Indonesian maid to praise UMNO and promise to vote for UMNO so that she can get Malaysian citizenship. That would be more helpful to your housemaid.
frank - May 11, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Haram? Moving on? OK.
It’s the economics, i think.
Ask John Malott, persona non-grata..
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=12176:the-price-of-malaysias-racism-revisited&Itemid=2
C.L. Familiaris - May 11, 2011 at 1:50 pm
That doesn’t sound like Old Frank. Could be a mutation but certainly not of the old into the new. Is it a case of God breaching his own copyright law??
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Kristiana getting cosy with Tok Cik?? This calls for tactical redeployment of troops. Others may call this a retreat. Tok Cik sees it as slight modification of the terms of engagement as he goes from the front seat of his Cooper S to the backseat.
You may want to change your absorbers first.
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Mr Bean
God is always with me since the day I was born. He lives between my ears and never left.
frank - May 11, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Nope, not the old lovable acerbic Frank.
Good clone though.
C.L. Familiaris - May 11, 2011 at 7:38 pm
If God’s fixed place of abode is between your ears then who lived between the ears of the now dead Osama bin Laden??
Mr Bean - May 11, 2011 at 8:07 pm
Should read the said article in Marahku.com which now deleted but copy in Malaysia today.
Fell from chair reading the article and the basis was a single photograph of some pastors/people praying. If that article was not sedition, give up. There were 137 comments to the said article a fair number ,then and there opposed the views in the article.
Want to see whether BN will walk the talk. If want to go downhill all the way, it is their choice and hope they don`t lose sleep over same.
Gutter politics at the lowest. A very uncalled for article, especially before May 13.
Joe A - May 11, 2011 at 10:48 pm
When you are dead, God walks away from between your ears.
When man kills another man, he kills God. Because God made man in His Image.
I am God, and so are you. So why bother reading those fairy tales written by some desert folks who suffered from hallucinations in the open air of the desert where the sound of the wind is thought to be the whispers of God and lightning as God’s opening eyes.
Come on… in the 21st century of science and reasoning, not some crappy ideas which are dependent on faith.
frank - May 11, 2011 at 10:55 pm
If you chaps want to argue how come God is between the ears of every man/woman, and including animals, plants, especially among our cousins in the jungle.
You see, God is everywhere, like the Laws of Physics, it is applicable everywhere.
Only hallucinated people reading those ancient fairy tales still believe they can overturn the Laws of Physics, like they think God is outside between their ears.
frank - May 11, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Do you seriously think God needs some illiterate desert people some 1,500-2,000 years ago or earlier to reveal who He is or what He is? And today we have PhDs and learned chaps well versed in science and rational thinking still dabbling in those ridiculous ideas mooted in the desert tents.
frank - May 11, 2011 at 11:08 pm
Mythological thinking is never overcome by science, philosophy or theology, frank. It’s merely transformed into larger unconscious principles. We are all in a journey out from our personal lives into the trans-personal order of the universal symbols of being “Man”.
This of course is fraught with dangers of projection, fusion and anxiety. But if these problems are navigated honestly, a freer self emerges from the narrow confines of race, culture and class.
Myth is a product of human concern about himself, about his place in the scheme of things and about his relationship to society and to ‘God’. It is about ultimate origins and ultimate fate. It is about “Be-ing”. It is not mere Superstition.
C.L. Familiaris - May 11, 2011 at 11:41 pm
Very well put CLF : ” Mythological thinking is never overcome by science, philosophy or theology….We are all in a journey ….into the trans-personal order of the universal symbols of being ” Man “…..It is about ” Being “. It is not mere Superstition ….”
This fatuous fellow ( capital F ) denigrates other faiths but believes only in his ” theory ” of the never-ending cycle of life-death-and rebirth philosophy – which ultimately in the scheme of things he postulates, boils down to this : In one life now, he may be a ” man “, and in the next he could become a “Fat Pig ” ! ( capital F )
What happens to a fat-pig ( capital F )? Well simple….it is slaughtered in the abbatoir with a hot iron-rod & becomes food of other men ” for sustenance
The cycle goes on repeatedly, alternating between ” man ” & ” pig “, one following the other in the never-ending cycle – That must be the greatest hallucination of this fatuous fellow. Don’t ask me, it is your projections – I don’t believe in this Reincarnation or trasmigration of the soul theory!
We Christians and Muslims we ARE creations of God, made in His Image….unto Him we shall return, and these ” fates ” will be known at our final breath, not to worry….
Abnizar7 - May 12, 2011 at 7:43 am
“There is a place where words are born of silence, A place where the whisper of the heart arise. There is a place where voices sing your beauty. A place where every breath carves your image in my soul…”.Beloved RUMI”
kathy - May 12, 2011 at 6:40 pm
CLF, that is so beautifully described !
kathy - May 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm
We Christians and Muslims we ARE creations of God, made in His Image…- Abnizar7
Abnizar7.
I consider that an insult to God.
Man is so evil and so hopelessly y imperfect to a point of being still evolving midway in the Darwinian scheme of things, to even use the word Man next to God is an ultimat insult.
NO, YOU came from the evolutionary tree of the primates, sharing 98 % of your genetic material with the chimpanzees and gorillas and orang-utans and the monkeys. Check your DNA if you are still confused of who you are.
By the way, you are ONLY 2 % human and 98% less human than those evolutionary cousins of yours in the jungle.
So. don’t insult God that you and the rest of mankind is a creation of GOD in HIS Image. Unfortunately God cannot defend Himself on the internet or verbally to this accusation. I wonder why.
What you read about this crap about Man made in God’s image was written by some desert people who have no damn clue about who they were themselves except to stride along with the camels or donkeys in the desert in the Middle East.
frank - May 12, 2011 at 7:40 pm
C.L. Familiaris and Kathy
Nice prose does not do poetic (pun intended) justice to scientific facts.
frank - May 12, 2011 at 8:29 pm
This fatuous fellow ( capital F ) denigrates other faiths but believes only in his ” theory ” of the never-ending cycle of life-death-and rebirth philosophy – Abnizar7
Who says I have any theory????
What an idiot.
frank - May 12, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Hahaha.., dear frank, forget about the capitalization. Poetry and symmetry is what makes science ‘beautiful’. Science with it, is ‘inhuman’ and cannot exist.
Btw, the “In His Image thing” should be referenced to: “I Am, Which I Am”, a self-referential awareness. That part of Genesis was probably written in 950 BCE by the hypothetical “J” (Jahwist) source. In that sense, it is a pointer to ‘existentialism’, be it Theistic or not.
C.L. Familiaris - May 12, 2011 at 9:31 pm
Your fear of your own hallucination is why you are so anti -God ! You are too muddled-up within your deepest psyche: you need a psychiatrist !
Look Frank if you are an Imbecile do not chatter like the primates. If you are caught within the 98% identical DNA in the memory code of the monkey, sorry for you, you will DEFINITELY descend into the animal kingdom, when facing your final breath – for sure !
That is why when God says that man is created in His Image, man , who strives to attain his highest potential, which makes up for the 2% who are the rarest of the rare, only they WILL sing the song of Eternal Life – unlike you Frank who will be born & reborn from the one being slaughtered in the abbatoir to the specie ” jumping from tree to tree ! ” You don’t believe ? It may be just around the corner for you.
You want proof, scientific evidence? Physics ?
Nah.. even if you are born & reborn for umpteen times, you will never be able to get a clue, let alone proof, of man’s fate that befalls him at the final hour, save only the few wo has knowledge of what YOU do not know !
Actually its you who insult God, and God says he has no desire for ignorant man who conducts himself with arrogance…wait for the final hour…..
Abnizar7 - May 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Take it easy guys.
There’s never enough room nor time for debates like this. Therefore, it behooves us not to trash our most patient blog-host postings.
Something ‘experiential’ cannot be based on reason and ‘science’ alone, just like the beauty of the Universe, the rising and setting of the Sun, the sky, the smell of a flower or even a blade of grass. Therein lies the ‘soul’.
By defining thinking and ‘reason’ as refutation, modern science has remade modern culture into it’s own image. This is a problem especially in democratic societies, where ‘experts’ have come to replace citizens as final public authority. This becomes the greatest tragedy of “Human-ness”, where individuals become subsumed in conformity. We aren’t allowed think independently any more. I certainly would not want to live in a society where rigid reason and pure legalism dictates.
Modern science gives us power over the world, whereas, religious mysteries hold us accountable for our stewardship of the earth and attempts to to establish a “community”.
For me, Christianity teaches the purpose of life and the thought is love and compassion, not power. By it’s very nature, there is no such thing as “Christian” politics, but it is possible to have a politician with Christian proclivities. That said, i view the recent manufactured ‘controversy’ with regards to “Christianization” not only irrational and irascible, but by it’s very nature, incredibly stupid and ‘Octo-fied’.
For you, frank: Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum (I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am)
C.L. Familiaris - May 12, 2011 at 11:35 pm
Abnizar7
Face it, you are 98% similar to the chimpanzees, gorillas, orang-utans and the monkeys. You can dabble in your religion about God, you are still only 2 % human.
Go ask your kid if he’she studies biology or biochemistry if you yourself refuse to educate yourself to live in 21st century.
What an idiot!
frank - May 13, 2011 at 12:02 am
“… religious mysteries hold us accountable for our stewardship of the earth” – C.L. Familiaris
Not sure about that… no wonder we have having problems with ozone layers, climate change, poisoned rivers and polluted air as heritage for our future generations.
What a stewardship if we are to depend on religion to be steward after this earth.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 12:07 am
God says he has no desire for ignorant man who conducts himself with arrogance…wait for the final hour…..- Abnizar7
God gives you a BRAIN to THINK and USE it to stay relevant to the present.
Looks like you don’t use it or you don’t have one.
God definitely DIDN’T make YOU in HIS image.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 12:10 am
The stewardship is mentioned in Noah’s covenant, or Noahide law, which places the stewardship of the earth onto mankind.
Problem is, many don’t know what to make of it. We pollute because either we don’t know better, for productivity or because we just want to ‘tayang’. It’s an ego problem. Now Buddhism otoh, deals with with this problem quite effectively. So do all religions, if we follow the Golden rule with each emphasizing a different aspect.
Heard of “Buddhist economics”? Written by a very Christian chap called E.F. Schumacher in a book called “Small is beautiful”. He espouses a meta-economic theory using Buddhism as an example. He admits that the teachings of Christianity, Islam or Judaism could just as easily be used to illustrate the point: “that when cultural assumptions change, so does the economic laws.” For e.g.: the concept of “Labor” in the west is seen as a necessary ‘evil’ – one of the costs of production; whereas, from a Buddhist point of view, right livelihood is a cornerstone of spiritual development. Therefore labor doesn’t just produce goods; it offers the individual a chance to overcome egocentricsm by benefiting humanity. Soul destroying work, no matter how cost effective, is counterproductive, producing untoward social difficulties.
C.L. Familiaris - May 13, 2011 at 1:06 am
C.L. Familiaris
I remember very clearly what the late Pope John Paul II said in one of his sermons to one of countries in his world trips:
He said, something to this effect,
“We are the stewards of this earth. We must protect it”.
It is so profoundly true coming from this great man (who I heard might be made a saint soon). I cannot disagree with him.
But then we live in the world in which the stewardship of the earth is handed over to multi-national companies and miltary-industrial entities which are more interested in exploiting this earth to the maximum for profit.
And who are these guys? They are church-going Christians, Synagogue-going Jews, Muslims who pray 5 times a day, Buddhists chanting day in day out and Hindus burning incense daily in temples.
Poor old Pope John Paul II… perhaps when he is made a saint soon, he can revisit and make them sleep in cardboard boxes on the streets of New York, London, Beijng, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 1:36 am
Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum (I doubt, therefore I think, therefore I am)- C.L. Familiaris
Charlie the Chimp in the London Zoo will also say the same thing. Perhaps he won’t say it in Latin.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 1:40 am
Unfortunately buddy, a lot of these mega-corp and military-complex guys are those who do the outward aspects of whatever religion the profess. They also happen to represent 98% of humanity whom, for evolutions sake, never understood the ephermal nature of their human existence. They cannot or are unwilling to see their own depravity and hubris, pandering to what Christ calls Mammon.
You and i must not dwell on their hypocrisy and banality. Your ways are not my ways – yet we strive to uncover the keys that makes us truly sentient beings. Imitation of others, be it in church, mosques, temples or whatever religious establishment, is perfidious to our inner souls. And it does no good to rage against the perceived evil that man do unto themselves and others. The way is lonely and path onerous – and it’s individual and intensely personal. I have a personal counselor based on a ‘Be-ing’ who lived 2 millennium ago. Keeping his commandments is the heavy cross i have to bear, though i’m far from being what most people consider a ‘professor of the faith’. What do you have, besides human reason, rationality and intellect and teachings that cannot engender true agape (selfless love)?
C.L. Familiaris - May 13, 2011 at 3:07 am
Frank, hearing is an ability. Listening is an accomplishment. Sometimes we have to listen, before we can hear. Kathy quoted something on another thread, about silence, not knowing that it’s but a rendition of one of Judaism’s favorite quote – the soft, still voice in our hearts. (1Kings 9:12)
C.L. Familiaris - May 13, 2011 at 3:26 am
CLF, it doesnt matter what label it is, the message is clear isnt it in both?
kathy - May 13, 2011 at 4:36 am
CLF, your elucidation is OUTSTANDING, beautifull and a pleasure to discourse with, keep up your invaluable pieces !
Frank says it is human smartness, his brains & thinking prowess alone that save Man ! There is something else MORE that Frank needs to know, which he does’nt know, which may propel him to descend into the ” lower kingdom “, quicker than he ever will imagine ! And these are the ones comprising the 98% representing the genetic memory code in the primates…. ( they have about equali intelligence maaa…)
Me thought, I would not want to disclose why the 2% are in the category of those, like yourself CLF, will constantly sing the Song of Eternal Life…unlike the stuff of Frank who has no clue what is worldly existence, and what remains a mystery in the Ineffable Reality of The Divine Mystery, in order to gain Salvation !
All right, I may just offer a clue for whatever it is worth. It is NOT pure human intelligence or his ” primitive ” brains… Christian bretheren, may I disclose this ? Man is endowed by the Maker to have the POTENTIAL to turn or convert negative energies withim him into POSITIVE ! Every bit, from the heart to the brain, from the skin to his flesh, all endowed with this mysterious thing caled Energy within him. In this ” dirty ” man, for all his life, for all he doest not know, he has gathered impurities, more specifically Negative Energies.
If you have no clue about this, Frank, you are doomed…. YOU WOULD NOT KNOW ” HOW ” TO CONVERT negative energy into positive, you are finished….you will definitely descend !
Who taught us this ? Yes, the Chosen Mesengers told us these mysteries….don’t believe ? How did Beloved Jesus Christ ( p.b.h) turn ” water into Wine ” ? Brain ? Intelligence ? If Frank says so, he is the next sure material for the primate -kingdom , because Chimps & Primates have only ” intelligence ” like Frank’s !
Good luck Frank, I should’nt have disclosed this to you, for your own good…hopefully…
The ONLY thing I choose not to disclose is HOW ?> Use lahhh…monkey-brains CANNOT, can never teach Man, although they are higly intelligent !
CLF….its always a pleasure, but pl tolerate my crudeness…Sincerely
Abnizar7 - May 13, 2011 at 8:32 am
How did Beloved Jesus Christ ( p.b.h) turn ” water into Wine ”- Abnizar7
You cannot be serious.!! Thye other day my grandson told me that man can fly like Superman.
He thinks David Copperfield is modern day Jesus Christ… can do magic.
Despite your elucidated writings, you still have your brain at the wrong place. Your cousins in the jungle is also having a good laugh. Now at least your cousins in the jungle can fly from one branch to the next.
You are more worried about the next life. I tell you where you are going after you are dead…
Zilch… like the chicken or cow you slaughter or others slaughter for you… they land on your dinner table. In your case, its the reverse, you land as a feast for the maggots and worms.
Dreaming about living after death… what a crappy nonsensical idea.
Learn the lesson from those Egyptian mummied Pharaohs and those entombed Chinese emperors. They came back “alive” with their dried skins and bones intact.. Lucky for them. For you? Well get yourself mummified if you want life after death.
Wasted education!!!!
frank - May 13, 2011 at 11:11 am
Those who go to church, mosque and temple to pray for a good life after death or to go to heaven, or to seek the 72 Virgins or to have a long holiday in the Kingdom of Heaven, they might as well go to a Wishing Well and ask for gold to float up in the water.
Hallucinated expectations of the impossible.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 11:20 am
CLF, your elucidation is OUTSTANDING, beautifull and a pleasure to discourse with, keep up your invaluable pieces ! -Abnizar7
Silly. Truth hurts. Raw scientific facts hurt more.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 11:23 am
Yours is a heart full of scorn, vile venom in your tongue !
You had said once man comes from nothingness and go back to nothingness…..
That’s because you have forgotten that you came from the ape, and going back there, and, there you shall abide forever…..you realise not ! You WILL be going back there.
Only this life, no other life you think…. If so, can you STOP going back to nothingness, meaning can you stop yourself from ” death ” ? Don’t worry Pharoahs were dead, and it will be calling on you soon – that is your REAL fear !
Have you heard of faith healers, there are people who CAN perform miracles….there are testimonies of a few who had demonstrated levitation…..or even avoidance of pain in mind-over-matter ceremonies of extreme faith eg Batu Caves ?
Nah…..irredeemable stupidity for not understang that Science or Scientific & Physics are matters affecting this World of solid matter & fleash, and their ” physical properties ” – beyond this point, your kuci-brain is awaiting to be trasmitted to your ORIGIN – the Ape !
Abnizar7 - May 13, 2011 at 12:31 pm
I disagree with you frank, nice prose not only does poetic justice to science , it describes it because nice prose as you term it,ultimately acknowledges that humans and our world are the ultimate perfect scientific “experiment” and the embodiment of not only science but of the realm that we have forgotten about, the realm we come from.
kathy - May 13, 2011 at 3:33 pm
and one more thing frank, not only do we humans need science. Tha is merely one part of the whole, the other part consists of , to complete our Be-ing , the other realm, the one that the ‘nice prose’ speaks off,
“There is a place where words are born of silence, A place where the whisper of the heart arise. There is a place where voices sing your beauty. A place where every breath carves your image in my soul…”.Beloved RUMI”
When I am weary with this world, weary with the sciences, weary with the politics, weary off human deceit, weary of human prejudicisms , weary of human judgement, weary of human arrogance, weary of human war, weary of human poverty, weary of human inequality,weary of human hate(…need I go on), that place the prose speaks off is the place I go to, the only place I can depend on.
kathy - May 13, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Yes, truly sublime, kathy – two sides of the same coin in this journey of life….
” is the place I go to, the only place I can depend on…” – God has promised ” ask and you shall be given ” : it is the song of Eternal Life which has been promised.
For those in arrogance proclaiming of his ” superiority ‘ because of his puny brains & human intelligence, OVER-RIDING God, what Khalil Gibran says that AlMighty has no desire for Ignorant man to worship Him, is clearly demonstrated by people who REJECTS God, and greatly desires to be reborn to a place where ” they yearn to be able to jump from tree to tree…..” – that will be their heavenly abode forever to abide therein – Amen
Abnizar7 - May 13, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Yours is a heart full of scorn, vile venom in your tongue !- Abnizar7
I have a heart full of scorn, vile venom in my tongue for those who talk and write without using their God-given brain. They are people who are an insult to the God of their religions.
And that unfortunately, I have to include you.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 6:07 pm
kathy
I am all ears to listening to scientific poetry or a poetry of scientific advancement.
frank - May 13, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Sorry Frank,
You speak with a fork-tongue, one moment your arrogance about your superior human brain & intelligence, condemning others for belief in God, and the next moment you say of others……” who are an insult to God…..” !
I think you better stay there in your heavenly abode…..” from bough to bough….from tree to tree…..with blisfull glee….yes, heavenly…heavenly & forever free in the vastness of the forests’ canopy….! heee…heee….
No point reciprocating to your idiocy….since God has no wish for ignorant man like you to acknowledge Him – Since you have the primate’s brains, please just vamoos & no more chattering, because I too have no regard for your ignorance & ARROGANCE –
What scientific poetry ? Your utterances pathetic , vamoos…shooo…shooo…..don’t litter this place…. dont you understand, we are getting stained by you.
Abnizar7 - May 13, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Dato Din,
If you would see the extent of these chatterings by this particular chimpanzee, which has climaxed to the height of stupidity, littering your blog for which you have shown patience, please kindly block this further rubbish….,
I would particularly appologise to your goodself but not those of ignorance & utter contempt. Very much obliged, thank you
Abnizar7 - May 13, 2011 at 8:28 pm
please kindly block this further rubbish….,-Abnizar7
After failing to get God to punish me, now you ask Dato Din to throw me out of his blog into hell.
If you are God-fearing, it should be the other round, appeal to Dato Din to make me vamoosh by a click of the button, failing that, then you should appeal to God.
What’s wrong with you, huh? Go read your sacred texts and have some respect for God first.
frank - May 14, 2011 at 12:00 am
Accept frank for what and who he is Abnizar.
I know this, of him – he is a deeply spiritual and erudite Individual. It doesn’t mean that he has to sense God the Transcendent, as you or i imagine (yes, that’s the word). Our concepts must never be preordained except by the Scriptures we follow. All else is rubbish. The mainline Protestants call this ‘sola scriptura’ or by scripture alone.
Religion and spirituality are not synonymous.
I shall always welcome a different point of view, be it an agnostic or atheistic one. That doesn’t mean ‘infringement’ on my Truth. Scientific, substantive and moral truths are in a lower order than experiential truths. That is why we are ‘human’, is it not?
C.L. Familiaris - May 14, 2011 at 1:41 am
Dear CLF,
I respect you for you opinions most of the time, all the time, its a pleasure to chat with enlightened people like you.
Well…. I am with you here that I am not merely seeking for truth in the Immanent nature of God’s Being…He is the realm of the Absolute, One from Eternity Who will BE to Eternity beyond the End of Time. Who are WE these puny brains people of the Earth – a mere dot in the vastness of Time-Space Dimension?
So I am deeply humbled by the Infinite Vastness, Awesome Universe, the Elegance of which is beyond human description ! Scientists are all TRYING to put in human words…..
And, like you all, like a spectrum of dust floating about in this Awesome & Infinite Space we live in, on my part, I can only TRY to understand from this Manifest Reality displaying AlMighty’s Attributes of Transcendence…..understanding just little bit may be, BUT words & descriptions, Scientists are trying…so I do try to follow with scientific languages….they are beyond words CLF…
BUT WHAT I WONT ACCEPT IS TO TRY & BE MISCHIEVIOUS with malicious Intent & Propensities, by clever twisting of words to subvert truths. Do You think we punny people can subvert truths ? No one can, CLF….because all truths END UP or finally CONVERGE into the ABSOLUTE TRUTH – I don’t know…but I honestly shudder….Could we all with Sincererity AVOID this
( I would kindly request Dato Din, to observe & make up his mind what or who is causing this particular mischievous propensities and thank you for kind indulgence ).
________
Abnizar7,
I always avoid discussing religion, especially comparative religion (although I read about Islam, Christianity,Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism (I suggest reading Sarvepali Radhakrishnan’s An Idealist View of Life) and Paganism). First, I think I am not competent in this field. Second, even if I am, I know we can never agree when it comes to religion. Like Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, I rather respect the dignity of difference.
I have been following the Mexican stand off between you and Frank and may I kindly suggest to both of you to cool it. Focus on other pressing challenges facing our nation right now. You both are valuable to this blog.Rest assured that except in the case of cybertroopers, I will not use the delete button as a weapon of first resort.–Din Merican
Abnizar7 - May 14, 2011 at 4:17 am
Dato Din,
I can accept that, PROVIDED some persons do not be PROVOCATIVE in the first instance, to twist & turn with words, which are not of substance, but lying beneath it, subtle malicious Intent….. I KNOW WHY…but let me not disclose as yet….until we are pushed more & more ! That’s the caution I make.
Good Intentions with sincerity demonstrable, I think why not, we can or be able to discuss intelligently matters of faith. I have always maintained ALL Religions BELIEVE in God, otherwise why have people’s respective Religion ? Afterall our own Religion talks of tolerence.
CLF & few others, we are perfectly at EASE when discussing, even when there are points we disagree with, it does not matter : we agree to disagree on core fundamental doctrines. But CLF does NOT manupulate with words or twist & turn….( ” Mine you have to follow, your religious values are from dwellers of the desert ” kind of stuff ! )
WHAT IS HE UP TO, IF NOT BEING MALICIOUS ? Insidious & evil motives !
Mine has always be a retort to malicious-minded people made IN EQUAL MEASURE :
MY WARNING IS : DO NOT BE ARROGANT and offer highly PROVOCATIVE stance, too much air of Superiority, trying to malign other people’s belief ! He thinks others have no ” intelligence ” to read him – this uncouth fatuous guy.
Nobody is just going to give way any further…it has been going on for too long : WICKEDNESS revelling in the silence & patience of others….
That said, I would love to carry on even if its a religious discourse, with persons I respect, CLF. for whilst he differs at times, his wordings used are with NO malicious Intent …
We learn….modestly….
I only request that PROVOCATIONS be struck out – Thank you, Dato Din, you have been magnanimous via your blog – and patient
Abnizar7 - May 14, 2011 at 8:41 am
MY WARNING IS… – Abnizar7,
You poor soul… your heart is broken because you cannot defend God.And you are giving warnings like some prophets from those fairy tale books you read.
If you cannot control your emotions, go to a Buddhist temple and meditate. Do some yoga. Perhaps by going to a Buddhist temple (they won’t ask you to pray to Buddha because he has gone into nothingness and they are atheists anyway) and meditate so that your heart can be more peaceful, more love for your fellow human beings instead of vomiting your your vile and un-Godly anger… which is a disgrace to your own religion.
Otherwise,go take a long cold shower. You will feel refresh and clear your twisted mind.. and talk more sense.
frank - May 14, 2011 at 11:53 am
Abnizar7,
I thought you have a matured mind. Now I realise, a bit late I suppose, you do have an infantile mind. So it was my mistake to engage you in a topic beyond your mental capacity.
So this is my last posting about YOU. Now you can go and pray to your God in peace.
One more thing before I leave you in peace, don’t do anything silly in your fits of anger, you hear? Like jumping into the bathtub head down or from the top of the roof. God does not like that kind of thing to happen to those who defend Him.
Take good care of yourself and love your fellow human beings more.
frank - May 14, 2011 at 12:55 pm
That’s why I’ve often said your are Buddhist, so be it, and you can revel or dabble in the never-ending cycle…..be there, here & everywhere, and you can do that because there is NO God !
In the forest it so easy to cleanse yourself, because evrything is free….
Me ? My conviction tells me about the promise made : as you sow, so shall you reap, Salvation !
True to the Word of God AlMighty which I can confirm :
IT WILL BE THE SONG OF ETERNAL LIFE…. in the final judgement at the final hour !Yes very soon for most of us : cannot avoid !
NOW OR NEVER….TOMORROW WILL BE TOO LITTLE TOO LATE….
Abnizar7 - May 14, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Ok, my final salvo : two things from Khalil Gibran :
i ) ONLY THOSE ACHIEVE ETERNITY WHO
ON EARTH SEEK ETERNITY
( Now or never, tomorrow will be too late – Hereafter ? Ever more late…)
2) THOSE WHOM LOVE HAS NOT CHOSEN AS FOLLOWERS, WILL NOT HEAR WHEN LOVE CALLS……. in his ” Broken Wings ”
God still says, even when ignorant man offers blasphemy, AlMighty says : MY MERCY PRECEEDES MY WRATH – one could take that seriously or jokingly….at one’s peril…
Abnizar7 - May 14, 2011 at 3:56 pm
PS
Dedicated specially to Dear Kathy – with a tinge of pathos…. on your lamentations of WEARINESS :
” When I am weary of this world….weary of human deceit….of human arrogance….of human war….weary of human poverty…weary of hate….”
May I dedicate what a poet expressed in this prose :
VICTORIOUS MEN OF EARTH, BOAST NOT YOUR MIGHTY DEEDS THAT YOU REACHED THE MOON OR THE STARS , FOR , EVEN SO THAT YOU MAKE DENIALS OF ME…. AND EVEN IF NOT FOR ANYTHING ELSE,……WEARINESS ALONE WILL TOSS YOU TO MY BREAST !
( ANON )
Yes Cheer up…..Rejoice….
Abnizar7 - May 15, 2011 at 4:52 pm