December 29, 2009
Indian Muslims–In Defence of Mahathir
by Neil Khor (December 28, 2009)
Indian or Muslim, you cannot be both to be Malaysian!
Just when one hopes for clarity of vision or some astute observation from our senior statesmen, out comes this really strange statement. But to be fair, what was the context and what was the situation that Dr Mahathir Mohamad was referring to?
Former premier Mahathir never minces his words. He tells it as it is. He also does not need the government to “protect” him. He calls a spade a spade. He gives as good as he gets.
In this case, he was speaking at a function organised by the Kadayalannur Muslim Society, telling a group of people who still define themselves by their place of origin to be less tied to their ‘homeland’ and instead focus on being more Malaysian.
He said that for 1Malaysia to succeed, those of migrant origins must be less attached to their homelands. By this, he was referring to a metaphysical attachment to the “mother country”, the reference point that migrant societies often use to anchor their new-found identities in their country of adoption.
To be Malaysian, to Mahathir, means giving up this emotional link to one’s country of origin. He also said that the Indian Muslims must decide whether to be Indian or Muslim. In the context of his speech, this means deciding whether one was Indian as an ethnic category or Malay, as Muslims are defined constitutionally.
Almost immediately, Mahathir was condemned as racist and Islamically “unenlightened”. To my mind, our ex-premier was merely stating a fact when speaking about Indian Muslims. He could very well be referring to himself or speaking from self-experience.
To be or not to be
Malaysia is a very diverse country with a very complex history. Indian Muslim refers to a very wide group. It could refer to a person of Indian ancestry who is also a Muslim; or it can refer to a long-time domiciled group whose way of life is the result of many years of integration and, who at some point in time, have been accepted to be part of the wider Malay Muslim community.
Readers must also be reminded that Mahathir was speaking in Penang, where there is a large Indian Muslim community that have for more than 200 years contributed to the development of the state, particularly in Georgetown.
Like the Peranakan Chinese in Malacca, some Indian Muslims no longer speak Tamil or their inherited ‘mother-tongue’. Constitutionally, they can be considered ‘Malays’. What is particularly interesting here is that historically the definition of Malay as “a person who habitually speaks Malay, practices a Malay way of life and is a Muslim” was created in Penang in the 1920s.
In fact, the Penang Malay Association (now called Pemenang) defined its members in this fashion to avoid the more exclusionary definition then prevailing in Singapore.
In those days, the British colonial government accepted representations from various ‘ethnic’ groups and it was worthwhile for the more urbanised ‘Malays’ of Arab and Indian ancestry to identify themselves as ‘Malays’.
When we became an independent country with the introduction of electoral politics and race-based parties, it became imperative that the ‘Malay’ category be boosted by co-opting groups that may not previously be considered Malay. In fact, in the pre-World War II Pan-Malayan Malay Convention, the Penang Malay Association was excluded precisely on the grounds that its members were not ‘Malays’.
So, to Mahathir’s mind, Indian Muslims have an essential choice: be Indian or be Muslim. He is not asking them to leave Islam, he is telling them that if they are less India-oriented and emphasise their Muslim identity more, they can enjoy the privileges associated with being a ‘Malay’. He might as well say: “Look at me… I am a Muslim and have become a Malay and the sky is the limit”. What an inspirational speech.
The problem is that Mahathir was speaking to Malaysians in 2008 and not 1948. In an intensely ‘racialised’ environment with a bureaucracy that is very ‘race-conscience’, it is simply not good enough to be more Muslim than Indian.
Many Indian Muslims have been asked to produce their parent’s birth certificates before they can qualify for privileges reserved for the ‘bumiputeras’. When it is learned that they have Indian parents, they fail to obtain the desired scholarships.
The conundrum of 1Malaysia
Mahathir is not racist. He cannot be because he does not believe in race. As a medical doctor and a man of science, he knows that scientific research into the human gnome has made race theories, even the ones employed in his famous book ‘The Malay Dilemma’, obsolete.
His most recent statement about Indian Muslims confirms this but he should go one step further and help UMNO make the transformation from a ‘Malay’ to a ‘Malaysian’ party.
After all, if one can be less ‘Indian’ and more ‘Muslim’, surely a ‘Malay’ than be less ‘Malay’ and more ‘Malaysian’? Of course, Mahathir will say that being Malay is being Malaysian.
Here is the conundrum: the 1Malaysia formula is an integrative one – where everyone should come together based on our common national experience. If that was true, then we all have to give a little. This means everyone – the Malays included.
Confused? It now seems that the 1Malaysia rhetoric has managed to create ambivalence. This is the only way the government can win back the middle ground and yet retain the race-based political set-up.
But you cannot fool all the people all of the time. The reality is that so long as the political structure is based on
outdated interpretations of ‘race’, and is therefore very narrowly race-based, nobody will be “allowed” to be more Malaysian.
Action speaks louder than words, even when one does not mince one’s words. For the BN to truly reflect their own 1Malaysia rhetoric, they have to become more integrated. The political parties in the BN must bite the bullet just as Pakatan Rakyat has done in its first convention. The BN really does not have a choice. It must lead by example – integrate or bite the dust.
As for the Indian Muslims, in a non-sectarian society, they would not have to make the choice that Mahathir has put to them. They can be both Indian Muslim and Malaysian.
One can only hope that the scales have fallen from the eyes of all Malaysians. None of us need to set aside our ethnic heritage for scholarships or other privileges, and Indian Muslims would not have to be asked to be less ‘Indian’ and more ‘Muslim/Malay’.
NEIL KHOR has recently completed his PhD at the University of Cambridge. He is co-author of ‘Non-Sectarian Politics in Malaysia: The Case of Parti Gerakan Rakyat Malaysia’ (2008).

It will be a long time before we can get away from framing our discourse in terms of race and religion. I am confident we can, if we all focus on justice, democracy and freedom. These issues unite us all and make race and religion quite irrelevant. I do not deny that race and religion define who we are. But that should not divide us.
If unity is our objective, then we need to get out of the race-religion mindset and focus on our common quest for justice, democracy and freedom. The Indian versus Muslim kind of argument is not helpful. The Mamaks can be both. They are already Malaysians, only that today we are all led by a regime that still uses the divide and rule means to retain power and keep us separate, each in our own cubicle. After 52 years, one would have thought we would have overcome the issue of identity in our politics.–Din Merican
Didn’t I say that TDM is spewing “Bovine Excrement”? What is this rationalizing about the context and situation crap? Neil, you’re dissecting crap and to what point? A crap, dung and bovine excrement is still excrement no matter what the context or situation we see it. So stop all this talk about the crap and let the crap dry on it’s own without us moistening it with our spit. TDM was crap, is crap and will always be crap (don’t you know why UMNO slogan is “Dulu, kini dan selamanya”? This is why!).
Malaysian is going down the toilet and here you’re dissecting and “defending” TDM’s crap? Yeah, you’re really contributing to the growth of this nation. NOT!
The faster we replace the Muslim skull cap (or kippah in the case of Jews) and the hijab and let Joe six pack have his say the better the future would be.
Bean
The Yamulka or Kopiah (skull cap) is just an adornement. Even the Pope wears one. As we get older we have less growth at the top and a Yamulka or Kopiah covers up the bald spot. Songkok is also not original Malaysian.
Hijab is now a fashion trend. Men are always anxious to see what’s underneath. If you bare them all there’s nothing left to the imagination or get excited. You see one you see them all. Hijab is more exciting than the Burqah.
Joe six pack will soon migrate to the Stengah on the rocks or atas batu. To each his own.
Race is God given, as one is born with a distinct race. It cannot be changed nither taken away. Even through adoptation our racial genes are still distinct.
However Religion is given to us by our parents and it can be changed through our lives. Religion is man – made, as a moral guidance to get our directions in life.
Below you see some useful links…..
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KL19Df03.html
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/12/dna-suggests-chinese-origin/
http://www.singazine.com/
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CAF953B069993691
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=BD80FD198CE85E35
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=EFA1F7345C5407FA
Happy New Year to New Yorker Bean and Shrek…thanks for your support albeit from some distance.
Mahathir is an enigma and now in his 80s he is hallucinating while working hard to salvage his legacy. Historians will look at evidence and he will be judged accordingly. Yes, as Neil says,”he gives as good as he gets”. The tide of public opinion on him is changing as more relevations appear out of the woodwork.
Read Neil carefully. He is trying to be fair in a very cynical way.–Din Merican
Shrek
The skullcap is a Jewish thing. It originates from Judaism, borrowed by the Jew’s semitic cousins, the Arabs, at the start of Islam. The skullcap has no religious significane to Islam compared to the Jews as it is a requirement for religious services.
The Pope wears one because the first Bishop of Rome, St Peters was a Jew. The disciples of Jesus were all Jews and they had wanted Christianity to be an off-shoot of Judaism ( early so-called Christians held their services in synagogues), but Saul ( St Paul) a Jew hijacked it because he saw that Jesus’s teachings have no future with the Jews and so he opened up Jesus’s teachings to the gentiles and claimed that gentiles also can share the Kingdom of God, not just Jews ( and of course they don’t have to circumcise, can eat pork ) and famously said that Jesus Christ supersedes the need to obey the Mosaic Law. Christianity today is called Pauline Christianity. Till this day, Jews have never forgiven St Paul for this and blamed Paul for the centuries of Christian anti-semitism.
Peter, one of the disciples was smart. He got the Romans and later Constantine to convert to Christianity.. and the rest is history.
Islam is an off-shoot of Judaism with some minor variations just like Christianity. That is why in Islam, Muslims can marry the People of the Book without them having to become Muslims.
Frank
Thanks for the insight on the Abrahamic religions and its intricacy and close intimacy. I had forgotten some of it even though I attended a Methodist school and first period is Scripture.
Bean
Distance is now no longer measured in miles or kilometers but in nanosecond. As I write this and in a click you will receive it. Imagine time travel travelling at the speed of light I’ve always had reservations about Che Det and have also strongly supported DSAI. It was great meeting Kak Wan and Nurul Izzah recently at the Omar Ibn Khattab Pathfinder’s Award.
Hope the time DSAI spent in political wilderness have given him an insight of the future of all Malaysians and may he be granted the opportunity to lead Malaysia into the next generation.
Frank
Thanks for the insight on the Abrahamic religions and its intricacy and close intimacy. I had forgotten some of it even though I attended a Methodist school and first period is Scripture.
Din
Distance is now no longer measured in miles or kilometers but in nanosecond. As I write this and in a click you will receive it. Imagine time travel travelling at the speed of light I’ve always had reservations about Che Det and have also strongly supported DSAI. It was great meeting Kak Wan and Nurul Izzah recently at the Omar Ibn Khattab Pathfinder’s Award.
Hope the time DSAI spent in political wilderness have given him an insight of the future of all Malaysians and may he be granted the opportunity to lead Malaysia into the next generation.
Din
Your good friend the cybertrooper has spammed in at least three of your postings, at last count.
Why don’t you use his IP address and get rid of him permanently.
Octo not a rascist? No, he’s “pragmatic” but obsolete. He was a conoisseur of “inbreeding”.
Does he know anything about the Human Genome Project? Did he know his real roots lie somewhere in present day Ethopia? Maybe his was in Somalia.
Seems incredible to me, after having gone through all that rubbish he dictated to this country for one whole generation, skewing the affirmative policy of NEP into the grotesque caricature of fascist dogma we see nowadays.
Btw about dogmas, Islam is an offshoot of both Judaism and Nazarite/Ebionite Christianity (Jewish Christians). Both differ from othrodox Trinitrian Christianity, as they do not consider Jesus’ divinity. And both require the Mosaic and Levitician Laws, which Paul discarded – because Jesus did so Himself. Physical “uncircumcision” is rarely possible, but what is most needed is the “cicumcision of the heart”.
Here Neil Khor’s response (Malaysiakini, December 29, 2009) to your comments:
“I refer to my article in Malaysiakini, “Indian Muslims – In Defence of Mahathir”.
The article generated a lot of comments (23 to date) and most of which were in reaction to the title ‘In Defence of Mahathir’ which was not of my choosing and that completely missed the point of the article.
As much as we like to cast Dr Mahathir Mohamad as demon, it is impossible to alter the history of Malaysia as a plural society, a result of British colonial policy and further enhanced by the Barisan Nasional (BN).
I am particularly miffed at remarks that I belong to a segment of non-Malays who see Mahathir as some sort of bigger-than-life figure. I think the reverse is true.
If we still think that Mahathir is the architect of all that is wrong with Malaysia today, we are attributing to this individual too much credit. In fact, Mahathir is not the man who invented the Alliance or the BN (Tun Razak is) .
That he made the best of the race-based politics of this country there is no doubt but so did so many other non-Malays, many of whom once wholeheartedly supported the Alliance and the BN.
By demonising Mahathir, are we, therefore, absolving ourselves for the support we gave him in election after election in his 22 years as prime minister?
It is better to try to be objective and less emotional. One man cannot a country make. Even his spin doctor, Mohamad Rahmat, has come out with a book to explain how it was ‘a team effort’ to create ‘Dr Mahathir’ the politician.
We risk making Mahathir into a wicker man and thus miss holding the present powers-that-be responsible for their failure to make Malaysia a better country.
There were another set of readers who felt that I created ‘spin’ to explain away Mahathir’s statement. That the choice was not really between ‘Indian’ and ‘Malay’. The reality is very different on the ground.
Malaysia is still a race-based country. This is the challenge faced by non-sectarian political parties in which Gerakan was a showcase. Today, the DAP is also trying to prove itself as non- sectarian whilst being deliberately cast as ‘Chinese’.
At the time Mahathir began his political career, it was still possible for an Indian Muslim to enter the Malay Muslim fold. Today, Malays constitute the majority and no longer need ethnic hybrids to bolster their numbers.
Race-based politics, my article was trying to show, is a numbers game. I know it is very difficult to wrap one’s mind around how race and religion can be conflated. Here is the warped logic of race-based politics, which is stranger than fiction.
Hence to clear the air – we really have to outgrow our own worship of politicians and their supposedly superhuman feats. Mahathir did not create race-based politics although he eventually came to head Umno and the once mighty BN.
Similarly, not all politicians who operated in race-based politics are racists. Tunku Abdul Rahman, for example, wanted to see us become more integrated gradually although he felt we should be independent first.
He too was president of Umno, although he was a leader of another time. Anwar Ibrahim was also once deputy president of Umno but today he is a champion of a non-sectarian political party.
Malaysians have to accept the reality that politics is the art of the possible and that politicians are merely human. Mahathir like the rest of us is, only a product of his times. If this is not myth- busting, I will have to write a work of fiction. Alas, I lack that special talent for drama.”
Picking up from where Frank left off on the issue of the Abrahamic faiths.
Over thousands of years, the Jews and the Arabs have struggled to own Abraham (we don’t even know if he really existed) – someone God has spoken to and has made a covenant with him. The Jews have given Abraham a make-over as much as the Christians and Muslims did. Jewish scribes wrote down the story in a comprehensive way which resulted in the Torah or the first five chapters of the Christian Bible.
There is dispute as to who actually was meant to be sacrificed. Was it Abraham’s first born Ishmael or Isaac. The Jews were adamant it was Isaac born to Sara, Abraham’s wife with whom God made a promise or was it Ishmael born to Hagar the surrogate mother sent into the desert to fend for herself. If it was Ishmael then God’s promise to Abraham that He will bless him “and his offspring” refers to the Arabs.
As for Jesus’s disciple Paul he completely re-interprets the Hebrew Bible not by abandoning the bible story but by using it for his own purpose – which was to make Christianity inclusive. Paul deemphasizes the dramas, Abraham’s argument with God and his attempt to sacrifice his son and instead focussed on his departure into the desert and into the unknown leaving his father’s house. Paul does not blame the Jews for Jesus’ death.
Then Prophet Muhammad came and in wanting to unite the tribes, early biographers tranced the lineage of the Prophet’s tribe back to Ishmael and through Ishmael to Abraham going back to Adam.
It is therefore inaccurate and misleading to look upon one faith as the offshoot of another. It is the same religion going back to Abraham.
Thank you, Mr. Bean.
We are on the same page.
I tend to believe that the covenant Abraham had with his semitic God ( who became the God of Christians and Malay and other Muslims) was with the ‘first’ born. because that had been the tradition of the semitic tribes since time immemorial. That means the covenant was which Ishmael who Abraham had with Hagar, the house maid.
Sarah did not conceive Jacob until years later. Ishmael was sent out, as the first born, to lands today called Arabia to look after Abraham’s properties, and the Jews interpreted as Abraham abandoned Ishmael. Jacob was the younger son who stayed back. Jews are good at misinformation, even right now among the Israel lobby in the US.
Today, the fight between Jews and Muslim is all about this piece of tradition. It is simply a family fight among the semitic tribes which for some unknown reasons non-semitic people like the Malays ( and Chinese converts like Ridhuan Tee) who have NO semitic or Arab genes bothered to get involved. Arabs are smart, they go round the world spreading Islam to fight for their family cause against the Jews for the right to claim their covenant with God.
Like what Paul did for Christianity, taking the Jewish cause to the gentiles, and let Christianity go on the offense at the Arabs who is fighting for their rights through Islam.
I call that smart politics of the Jews and the Arabs while the rest of the world are a bunch of suckers over 2,000 years. All they did was to link their fight with a divine figure, their semite supreme power and Heavenly Commander-in-Chief, called GOD, ALLAH, ELOHIM, JEHOVAH, YAHWEH
As Mr. Bean said, there is no evidence Abraham really existed just like Adam and Eve ( the latter came from Adam’s ribs). The Torah said Abraham came from Ur which means he was an Iraqi. He drove his camels and goats etc down south to the land today called Israel and start a family, just like those migrants who left Malaysia for US, UK etc.
Islam is about the Arabs (semitic cousins of the Jews) to claim their right to the covenant with the Jewish God from the Jews. Why do the Malays have to get involved in other peoples’ family quarrels.
Similarly the Chinese Christians, worrying whether Jesus would return on the day of judgment to convert the Jews to become christians as part of the RAPTURE ideology.
You find many Chinese Christians in Malaysia trying to be pseudo-Jews where on Sundays, if you go to one of those evangelical places of worship/churches , greeting each other “SHALOM “.Big deal… instead of good morning or selamat pagi or Ni Hao. Bunch of crazy chaps trying to be Jews who believe in Jesus. Just because Jesus was a Jew, the Chinese Chriistians want to be Jewish.
The same goes for some Malays who think becoming Muslim is absorbing Arab culture and dress. Everything Arab is link to Islam forgetting that Arabic is also used for in the Christian bible (. Allah is God in the Arabic bible).
An d Buddhists chanting in sanskrit as if the road to nirvana is ONLY through sanskrit. Why can’t they just translate and chant into their own language or mother tongue they understand, after all in Buddhism, the key message of Gautama is about “understanding”.
You do have very crazy and irrational educated minds in the Islamic, Christian and Buddhist faiths, especially among Malaysians.
“It is therefore inaccurate and misleading to look upon one faith as the offshoot of another. It is the same religion going back to Abraham.” -Mr Bean
You are absolutely right. I wanted to be politically correct without offending the Muslims by saying too directly that Islam is the SAME religion as Judaism with minor variations. I believe it is so, too.
correction
Sarah did not conceive ISAAC until years later….iSAAC was the younger son who stayed back.
Jacob (Nabi Yakob) was the grandson of Abraham (Nabi Ibrahim) and son of Isaac (Nabi Ishak) according to the Hebrew Bible.
Jacob was renamed as “Israel” the name after which the modern nation of Israel is named. Jews claim descendancy from Isaac via Jacob.
Poor Ishmael (Nabi Ismail) was blacklisted by the Jews because he was not around. His younger stepbrother Isaac played him out and claimed his father’s divine inheritance and passed on to Jacob.
And so the semitic tribal fight goes on to this day, engulfing non Arabs, non Jews, inflicting serious national insecurity between Malays and NonMalays, Muslims and nonMuslims in Malaysia and the rest of the world.
All because each side claimed the Jewish God blessed their tribes.
My question: Where are the Chinese and Malays and the Indians ( ie Mamaks) in all this quarrel between two desert tribe who still have bad blood between themselves??
It is like getting yourself killed or injured in your far away neighbour’s blodd feud.
As I said, very cunning of the Jews having mainly European gentiles and some silly Chinese on their side and the Arabs having the Malays, Indonesias and plenty of Chinese in mainland China on their side.
And to add….
When a 5-10 year old is forced to study/memorise the Islamic Holy book in Arabic at age of 5-10 years old, the poor kid growing up had his brain hard-wired to defend the Arabs on their right to the covenant with the Jewish God.
Likewise for a 5-10 year old kid being force by parents to attend Christian Sunday Schools and Bible classes had his brain hard wired to fight for the status quo of the Jewish cause as the Chosen People of the Jewish God.
Brilliant strategy of both Arabs and Jews of having allies right when they are very young. Even Sun Tze could not have come up with a better idea in his book “The Art of War”
This is the paradox of em all , as far as the people of the book are concerned – Islam accepts all the prophets; Christianity accepts all but the Prophet Muhammed, S.A.W ; while Judaism denounces all but the early prophets.
Still. for all their differences, the Arabs and the Jews have been co-existing peacefully since time immemorial . The shit only hit the fan when the SECULAR Jews decided to create the Israel state.
The religious (Torah) Jews are against the forced creation of the Jewish state of Israel . They are happy enough to do their penance for disobeying their God and awaits their day of salvation when their God at his bidding will lift them off their misery .
Religions are not the root of the problem. Humans will always find something to fight over as long as they do not learn how to co-exist with each other. Humans are by nature selfish and possessive beings and will do anything to control and protect their possessions.
This behaviour extend from his family to his community, his tribe, his nation, etc. And at the end of it all ,it is all about the acquirement of power. It is nothing new that since the dawn of human civilisation, both the religious institution and the state have worked hand in glove , the way the shaman and the tribal chief did, to prod the sheep along .
Unless, Science will come up with a new Super Drug to moderate the behaviour of humans, be rest assured that we will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot.
Religion has failed to elevate the Human condition and I am sceptical, Science alone will do better.
“Science will come up with a new Super Drug to moderate the behaviour of humans”- ocho onda
Here’s a partial list:
- Sildenafil ( perhaps Mr.Bean and Tean might have this in adequate supplies available at all times).
-chlordiazepoxide HCI
-7-chloro-1,3-dihydro-1-methyl-5-phenyl-2H-1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one.
-doxepin hydrochloride
-α- phenyl-2-piperidineacetic acid methyl ester
- N-[4-[[(2,4-diamino-6-pteridinyl)methyl]methylamino] benzoyl]-L-glutamic acid.
and of course the ever reliable: Morphinan-6-ol ,7,8-didehydro-4,5-epoxy- 3-methoxy-17-methyl-(5a ,6a )-, sulfate (2:1) (salt), trihydrate. that is: Codeine sulphate to take off all the headache and pain.
These are sufficient presently to remove all hallucinations about religions between our ears.
Frank’s comment on the tension between the three religions make for interesting reading though I wouldn’t take it too seriously.
Just one comment on what Frank said about Eve being made out of Adam’s ribs. One school of thought has it that later scribes didn’t like Eve being Adam’s equal which is the only conclusion left if you say Eve was made out of the same earth as Adam was.
You must understand that the Bible is not one book but twenty six chosen for their consistency and written down by male scribes hundreds of years after Jesus’ death. There are other gospels which were excluded because of their inconsistencies with the twenty six books chosen. There are more than one story of Creation in Genesis; and Eve was not the first woman. Lilith the first woman had been substituted later because male scribes found Lilith too independent and a feminist and wanted the first woman Eve to be subservient and docile. The story about Eve being created out of Adam’s ribs was to be preferred since this would mean that Eve was never meant to be Adam’s equal.
This explains why Muslim women are not treated as equals, their physical abuse at the hands of their husbands, and the denial of human rights
Good one, Frank but wrong answer.
To replace one addiction with another like cigarettes with nicotine patches ?
A world full of junkies ?
I think education is our only salvation. In our own back yard, let us hope that when PR forms the next government, PAS will do the right thing to stop the ulamas (or any other religion) from indoctrinating our young with their religious classes. Religion should stay in our homes and outside the realm of power.
“Frank’s comment on the tension between the three religions make for interesting reading though I wouldn’t take it too seriously.”- Mr. Bean
Well, facts are facts, and they are hard to deny. These are all laid bare by scholars who studied the history and genesis of the three desert religions. I would like to hear counter arguments to what I have said on the three religions.
That is why one should NOT take religion too seriously.
The concept of God will evolve as human understanding expands and depends. Human understanding of God has gone through many versions,from spirits nature, the sun, the moon, the pantheons of gods and goddesses living on mountains, human spirits became divine ie gods,and gods that devours human hearts and blood ( read the Mayas and the Incas) .
Now all these divine entities are convulsed inthe human mind into an UNSEEN AND IMAGINARY ENTITY IN THE SKY with human attributes,ie anger, jealousy, compassion, hatred of others, revengeful, tribal, killer of babies (read Egyptian first borns), took sides in human wars and battles ( read Islam and Judaism),…. the Jewish God called differently, ehovah,Allah, Elohim,ie the God of Abraham which Muslims,Christians and Jews pray to that called for the killing of Abraham’s first son just to show loyalty… the show of blood is a requirement (not far different from the Incas later who actually went through the exercise).
Tell me the above are UNTRUE.
God came off a flying saucer This is well documented through thousands of years. It is written in stone.
Yup.
Read Erick Von Daniken’s best seller, “Chariots of the Gods”.
Americans believe it so.
And Buddhists chanting in sanskrit as if the road to nirvana is ONLY through sanskrit….Frank.
Not Sanskrits my friend, it is in Pali Language, the language of the people living 2500 years ago in Nepal. Many of those words are now use by others. Nama, rupa, utara carry the same meaning 2500 years ago in Nepal and now in Malaysia.
In Buddhism, the concept of Anicca or impermanence is stated clearly. There is a universal language for Buddhism and it is the language of the hearts. Yours, mine and all of us.
“Race is God given, as one is born with a distinct race. It cannot be changed nither taken away. Even through adoptation our racial genes are still distinct.
However Religion is given to us by our parents and it can be changed through our lives. Religion is man – made, as a moral guidance to get our directions in life.
Below you see some useful links…..”
kahkahkahkahkahkahkahkahah..
In Buddhism, the concept of Anicca or impermanence is stated clearly. There is a universal language for Buddhism and it is the language of the hearts. Yours, mine and all of us…”
kahkahkahkahkahkahakah..
“Yup.
Read Erick Von Daniken’s best seller, “Chariots of the Gods”.
Americans believe it so.”
yup..this confirms,frank,americans n thier geng r looney bins..kesian,kesian..
Now all these divine entities are convulsed inthe human mind into an UNSEEN AND IMAGINARY ENTITY IN THE SKY ..
Tell me the above are UNTRUE.”
yalah..can tok kok endlessly….tell me frank..where the hell do you “go” when ur asleep? why people dream?..99.99% of manusia got no idea what so ever of dynamic action of divine forces..we of course can read,but will never b able to undersatnd,it’s true meanings ..for example “hujan rahmat”..apa maksudnya?is it real hujan?..or it appears like hujan with a difference?
“..why people dream?.” -jeff
Neurons…neurons… in your brain, that why you dream.
Read this very simple article > Clinical Studies of Dreaming”
“hujan rahmat” ? …nonsensical phrase of no worldly consequence.