Malaysians cannot be easily fooled: ‘Provide Saiful’s Report plus Apology’


http://www.malaysiakini.com
Jul 23, 2008
your say

MCPX

‘I call upon Anwar’s lawyers to initiate an injunction restraining the police from conducting any further so-called investigations until a copy of the report is made available.’

On No more waffling, we want the police report NOW

Amir Hamzah Amha: In my short stint as a practising lawyer, I find it incredible that both the government and the police have labelled Anwar as uncooperative and have made headlines announcing him as such.

My stand is clear – Anwar Ibrahim should not give any cooperation to any person based on any accusation on the sole premise that no copy of the police report against him has been given.

Anwar has a right to know his accuser and the subject matter of the accusation. Incidentally, in parliament, Khairy Jamaluddin even seemed to be inferring that he has read a copy of this report. What treachery is this?

The Bar Council in early 2008, in the midst of being investigated for the Human Rights Day incident and the March for Peace in Putrajaya, was ‘interviewed’ by the police.

When a question was about to be asked, the lawyers for the Bar Council objected and asked for a copy of the ‘First Information Report’ (FIR) lodged against them.

The investigative officers were shocked and clueless, knowing that there was no report to be tabled and shown to the Bar Council. They left without asking any further questions.

I call upon the lawyers of Anwar to initiate an injunction from the High Court restraining the police from conducting any further so-called investigation against Anwar until a copy of the report is made with an apology.

GKB:
For goodness sake, just give Anwar a copy of the police report which, as Anwar’s lawyer pointed out, is a public document. The way the police are conducting this investigation is suspicious and leery.

Many people who were uncertain are now convinced more than ever that this is a conspiracy against Anwar.

How can the hospital deny the fact that Anwar was stripped naked and his body examined? Why would Anwar will lie about this?

His detailed account has a ring of truth to it and he even said he refused to be photographed naked.

Asking for a fresh blood sample when he police already have his DNA profile on record is another suspicious act.

The police are unwittingly setting themselves up so that any evidence presented in court will be disbelieved by the public.

If the date and time of the alleged offense match Anwar’s movements, the public will believe the police report was amended after the fact. If Saiful can give an accurate description of Anwar’s body, the public will believe that the information came from the police.

If matching DNA was found in Saiful’s clothes or body, the public will believe that the DNA was planted from the fresh sample given by Anwar.

From the way things are being done, the public may be right. If there is no evidence, just close the case instead trying to fabricate evidence to suit.

Siew Khim: The corrupt, greedy and stupid BN regime will have to find Anwar guilty to keep him out of politics for a long time.

There are billions of ringgit at stake and these greedy, corrupted people cannot let it go. Even Mahathir and his family could be involved.

One way or another, Anwar has to be stopped. If the sodomy case cannot eliminate Anwar as a threat, they will find some other way.

Confused: When the great PM was asked to comment about his deputy’s involvement in the Altantuya murder case, he said that he couldn’t give his opinion as he has to respect the court and it is wrong for him to interfere with the court proceedings.

However, when it comes to Anwar’s case, he is free to give his one sen opinion, including asking Anwar to give his DNA. What a double standard!

I am wondering what happened to the old DNA? I don’t think it existed at all, or as usual, they probably misplaced it.

On Why I believe Anwar is not guilty

Tanpa Kepala: ‘Unfortunately, it is hard to view this case with fairness because both sides have already come to their judgement without all the facts.’

While this may be true, the authorities have made it very hard for us not to believe that this is nothing but another political conspiracy.

I, personally, cannot understand people who cannot see the clear signs of an non-level playing field. For example, why have Anwar’s lawyers been denied access to the police report?

If Saiful was indeed raped by Anwar, why did he not immediately file a report after being sodomised on the first occasion?

Why only lodge the report after being sodomised on eight different occasions? I don’t know about you, but the smell of fish comes from only one direction.

Pahlawan: I think the Malaysian government ie, Pak Lah, Najib, Syed Hamid should concentrate on their duties and leave the ex-deputy prime minister to the police to deal with according to the law of the land.

Surely there is nothing special about this poor man.

If he can clear himself from any wrongdoing he shall be the real hero of Malaysia like Hang Jebat. He will rightfully deserve respect and lead the Malaysian nation to prosperity,

Honest Bystander: I have noticed that this writer has often written scathing remarks about Anwar. It smacks off a personal vendetta. He has made remarks on ‘Malaysia Today’ as well, all personal.

I am an observer and am not an ardent supporter of Anwar (though at this point in time, I tend to be partial towards him as I believe he is but a victim of the BN government’s devious machinations to stay in power) but the comments made by this writer leave much to be desired.

I think he or she should reflect on whether he would rather have Malaysia’s coffers being robbed by the current bunch of poorly-qualified, incompetent ministers who will reduce the country’s economy to the likes of Myanmar and Zimbabwe, or to have a change of government to save the livelihood of the rakyat. Oh I forgot, that is if he is Malaysian.

On Father: Saiful was used

Sang Kancil: The lawyer merely read the letter which he himself wrote, but said was written by Saiful’s father, Azlan Lazim. Is he the person who signed the letter?

When the reporters asked him where the father was, he said the father had some other things to do and could not attend the press conference.

This is really some stuff to laugh at. What other important things could be more important than this to Saiful’s father?

Is Saiful really a student leader? I doubt it. He is a university dropout who failed his exams and the university found him unfit for university. It is a mistake to call him a student leader.

I was VP of the Dental Society of UM in 1989, and am currently president of one a national body, but I have not been given the chance to see DPM.

How can Saiful, a failed student, get a chance to see DPM for a scholarship?

Is a failed student qualified to get a scholarship under the Umno-led government? Looks very fishy to me. Looking at this from all angles, the press conference didn’t work at all.

On ‘DNA profiling is permanent’

Firefly: I refer to the numerous comments asking why Anwar’s previous DNA profile cannot be used and why a new sample is needed. I have no personal knowledge of what is going on.

However the following points should be borne in mind. Firstly it really depends on the method they used in 1998. Methods change and the results obtained depend on the part of the DNA that is being analysed to obtain a profile.

The FBI uses a method that identifies short tandem repeats or STRs, the length of which varies in different people. I believe in Malaysia we use the same method.

Results that are being used now may not necessarily be comparable to the results obtained at that time. Its not like a blood group. Once its B its always B.

In DNA profiling certain loci are identified and are used as targets. There is no fixed ‘type’. It depends on your loci.

Secondly, the DNA extracted from blood is limited by the amount of blood that was taken. Like everything else, it does tend to get used up as tests are repeated and reconfirmed. Its possible that there is not much of the original DNA left.
Thirdly for those who have watched Discovery and CSI etc, in those cases identification is sometimes done using mitochondrial DNA.

Mitochondrial DNA is quite hardy and if its skeletal remains then nuclear DNA may have deteriorated but mt DNA might still be usable. There are different types of DNA.

Lastly let us consider this scenario. In a remote village, a small child is sexually assaulted and killed. The police isolate DNA from semen. They now require all men within a 50 km radius to give a blood sample to try to help identify the assailant.

Would we all be jumping up saying its unfair for the police to ask for our blood because you are innocent until proven guilty?

The purpose of the DNA is to find the guilty party. How should the police proceed in this case?

Dr SKT: The DNA profile of a person will be the same as long as the same polymerase and primers are used under the same conditions.

If the polymerase and primers used presently differ from the ones used 10 years ago, then the analyst could purchase them from supplier that provides customised primers to profile the sample from Saiful.

In my experience as a researcher in biotechnology, I could purchase many made-to-specification primers and substrates. The DNA profile from Saiful’s sample can thus be compared to the existing DNA profile of Anwar.

Alternatively, special radio-labelled primers could be used for profiling a new DNA sample from Anwar by an independent expert. Sample taking and profiling should be done by this independent expert only.

The same primers minus the radio-label are then used to profile the sample from Saiful by our local analyst under the same conditions.

This will minimise any attempt to corrupt the sample, which can easily be done. Then the two profiles are compared. Both sets of primers are to be from the same supplier.

Profiling the anal sample can indeed be a challenge, considering the various microbes cohabiting our lower guts. Hence, the results can be easily misinterpreted and therefore challenged.

In addition to these methods, real time analysis is available these days.

JKS: There is a critical difference between DNA record and blood tissue. (Blood is technically a ‘tissue’ even though it is commonly called a ‘body fluid’.)

Blood tissue can be planted as evidence because blood is a cocktail of various types of blood cells (with complete cell structures), plasma (the liquid), and other bodily chemicals ranging from hormones to glucose.

In contrast, a DNA record cannot be planted as evidence because once processed, they become only tiny, perishable strands of protein and electronic images.

Perhaps this difference explains the police insistence on obtaining a blood sample (even worse, semen sample).

The public will only become convinced that the demand for a fresh DNA sample is really an attempt to get at a live blood tissue sample, to be planted as evidence to incriminate Anwar.

There is also the small possibility that frozen old blood sample from 1998 has finally been found, thawed, and planted as new evidence. Nothing can be trusted until our judiciary and law enforcement systems are reformed.

BH Salleh: There are a lot of comments being made about Anwar’s DNA being made available and potentially being misused by the authorities.

What tends to be overlooked is that not many, me included perhaps, understand the technicalities of DNA.

Nevertheless, what the police must surely be interested in is not Anwar’s DNA profile, since that is already available from ten years ago, but samples from Anwar’s body preferably semen or anatomical sheddings, to be manipulated onto Saiful’s clothing, perhaps.

So please, don’t speculate about the police having to plant anything ‘in’ Saiful. If it is to be done, it will have to be onto his clothes.

So watch out for that. As for sheddings, I advise Anwar not to go to any outside barbers for his haircut.

Derek Law: The PDRM should clarify why they need fresh DNA samples from Anwar Ibrahim. I am not a medical doctor or scientist, but I am very certain that a person’s DNA profile cannot change.

That means that if the PDRM find some human hair, semen, etc., at a crime scene, the PDRM will have to first compare the DNA with that found with their DNA database.

God forbid that a person can change his DNA profile – all rapists and murderers will be able to escape justice.

In this respect, the PDRM have Anwar Ibrahim’s medical records, which includes his DNA profile.

All the PDRM needs is to compare any foreign DNA found inside of Saiful and compare it with Anwar Ibrahim’s DNA profile.

This will immediately determine whether Mohd Saiful’s claims are true or false.

As a country governed by the principles of the rule of law, it is of upmost importance that the public must have faith in the PDRM and the PDRM must not only be neutral, but must be seen to be neutral as executives.

D Chin: I am no scientist or medical doctor, but our PM saying Anwar’s ten-year-old DNA sample is ‘too old’ seems like utter nonsense to me.

If scientists can take DNA samples from Napoleon Bonaparte or the Russian royal family assassinated almost 100 years ago, not to mention from long-dead stone age cavemen, how is it possible that Anwar’s DNA sample is too old?

Why not seek the opinions of the Malaysian Medical Association or our own science ministry and put this matter to bed once and for all?

The Malaysian public is really sick and tired of this sideshow. The PM should stop being so ‘nice’ and indecisive. He sways like bamboo in the wind.

For pity’s sake take out the big stick and whack all your subordinates into line. The PM is making Malaysia into a laughing stock in the eyes of the world.

Anthony Lee: Why the need for DNA if DSAI has an alibi?

I suggest that DSAI state where and who he was with on the days of the alleged sodomy so that it is public information and the police cannot amend the police report.

Why the fuss about DNA?

28 thoughts on “Malaysians cannot be easily fooled: ‘Provide Saiful’s Report plus Apology’

  1. It looks as if this debate will go on to infinity at this point. Really there’s hardly any point in the government saying or doing anything at all, because no matter what they do people have already vindicated Anwar, despite what God only knows if the sodomy really did take place, if Saiful is indeed a plant, etc. How will this ever end?

  2. if the sodomy really did take place, if Saiful is indeed a plant, etc. How will this ever end?

    I thought Saiful is of the “animal” species, not a plant!

    Your hypothesis is like that mountain phenomenon! If the mountain won’t come to you, you can go to it!

    There are many peaks around. There’s Tahan, Kinabalu and Salak! ;)

    Make sure you have enough mineral water before climbing the wrong one! :)

  3. The police report is a public document and if no offical copy is readily available the same should be available for inspection.

  4. malaysians, dun get intimidated by your “incredible” authorities. fight for your rights to progress with the rest of the world. not an anwar case, you ought to fight for your own human right! if not, your “incredible” authorities can do the same to anyone of you Malaysians as they wish next time round.

  5. Mr Bean,

    But you don’t like Marina! Or do you?

    I thought I left my ribonucleiac in San Francisco! ;)
    _____________
    Salak, which marina are you talking about? There are many marinas in our country. Mr. Bean is too far away from Fisherman’s Wharf; he is in Queens, New York with his Afro-wig and loitering in Harlem.—Din Merican

  6. Din,

    Marina Conventions which we, as he stated somewhere, do not adopt—where you tell people what they are alleged to have done before any subsequent due process. Don’t know if we are typical of the Brit system used or if Britain uses it.

    Yes, he’s far away. It’s a joke. The point is, as in China where productivity infra is widespread and inexpensive, RPK can roll out 10,000 in 48 hours and cause a stir and make ernest money. As in T-Shirts!

    What or who is your “model” now, on productivity? :)

  7. anthony lee,

    anwar has no alibi. even wan azizah do not kow where he was that day.

    look here and you will see how pathetic they were to cover up their husband’s sin:

  8. On “Father: Saiful was used”

    - Used by who?
    If it’s not Najis the powerful, the conspirator then WHO? I think he should search his conscience and ask himself where has he failed as a father! I suggest he brace himself for the truth.

  9. dungeonmaster,
    Could it not be possible that Wan Azizah was totally at a loss as to what to say during the PC, when suddenly thrown with such an ‘investigative’ question? Do you think that you can judge Anwar guilty already of sodomising Saiful by that mere video clip? Is he alrighty guilty of sodomy as pronounced by the monkeys, starting from the oldest monkey Mahathir? I refuse to allow my intelligence to be insulted.

  10. Very confusing comments flying about.
    Firstly,
    if there was a police report made by Shitfull, then there is no reason why Anwar/Anwar’s lawyers should not have a copy. My God, if any of us were accused of any crime – not even sodomy, we would want to know the details of the accusation (the report) so that we can defend ourselves. It would seem that the PDRM (or probably their masters) have decided that after 50 years of Ketuanan, they can now play God!
    Dungeonmaster – your quote “anwar has no alibi.
    If a person (DSAI) does not have details of the complaint (the police report) against him, what alibi does he have to give? Confront DSAI with details (date, time + place) provided by Shitfull when he was screwed by DSAI as he claims – then and only then can DSAI be abl to provide his alibis. Or are we expected to again watch the wayang of 1998 when the stupid driver came up with 3 dates and different locations as DSAI was able to provide alibis for each location and date given by the complainant. And what the hell do you mean by :
    “even wan azizah do not know where he was that day.
    look here and you will see how pathetic they were to cover up their husband’s sin:” does not make sense.”
    You sound as if you are also trying to play god or perhaps you are telling us that you are a person without any sin. Wan Azizah is already going through hell and you have no right to shoot off your mouth without any respect for the lady’s worry.

  11. Expect a monkey wrench to be thrown into the works to see if the machine would grind to a halt. That’s what dungeonmaster is doing!

    Alibi should not be confused with ‘excuse’ or ‘justification’. Alibi has a legal definition. It is a legal defense.

    Why is it important to prove a man is at another place at the time he is alleged to be in order to commit the crime – if not for the inference that he could not have committed the crime?

    Now we know why there is more than police inefficiency or indifference or apathy involved in not wanting to release a copy of what is a public document. Perhaps it is time we have our own Freedom of Information Act similar to that used in the U.S.

    It is clear to me that Anwar is calling their bluff.

    Anwar may not have a fool proof alibi. A full proof of alibi would be like a cinema ticket at the material time, when he was seen going into the cinema and leaving it by an independent witness. Simply being with his wife at home is not a full proof alibi since your wife would not be an independent witness.

  12. However, it is clear though that Anwar is trying to call their bluff. How would Anwar know if he has an alibi when he has yet to see the time and place on the Police Report :)

  13. Good question, Bean!

    Trying to figure out a DPM working day schedule and time habit forming and people involved. Of course Anwar may not be as busy when he was DPM but time management for him would now b an ingrained habit so you get an assistant to roll your activities a few days before the event and a few days later which cover what’s in between.

    A PM’s days would even be more accounted for and it’s a wonder that Mahathir forgets when he has a string of secretaries. But of course he might not tell me the truth he met you when actually he was with Samy!

    But since the Police has not yet released a copy of the Police Report, Anwar need not give his detailed alibi.

    Actually a cinema ticket is not foolproof. I mean you did sneak out the other door and come back 30 minutes later, many times didn’t you?;) So the person who sat with you has to affirm you were there all the time and be ready to be grilled. Good lawyers can undress your when all the time were fully robed!!! :)

    Actually it’s a daunting experience to be a witness surely. I have witnessed many things but I don’t think I can keep my sense of humor being one in a court of law! But I reckon it could be used sparingly as a good defence tactic! :)

  14. The Police is taking the shotgun approach, hoping one pellet will hit the target. Thus the reluctance to produce the police report. If Anwar respond to the alleged act then the police can establish a time and place and doctor the police report to indicate the time and place as stated by Anwar. This is fishing for information and smells of entrapment.
    This clearly shows the low professionalism of the investigating officer as well as the PDRM in general. It goes all the way up to the IGP.

    Hey Mr IGP, it’s about time you retire. Don’t bother asking for an extension of your contract. Do you mean that there are no competent person to take over your post? Wait till you retire and become a civilian. Then you will see how much respect you get from the public. You are cordially welcome to join that disgraced Rahim Nor.

  15. Let all of us, stain our underwear and send it to the Chemistry Department of the Rogue Malaysian Polis so that they can revel in the evidence in abundance.

    If anyone knows the right address, let start a campaign to mail the Malaysian Police whatever evidence you like, especially excreta

  16. When I was an undergrad there was this room mate of mine who would sneak out in the middle of the night to collect ladies’ underwear – he was very selective, collecting only used underwear!

    Don’t be surprised to find men in blue having the same hobby. The only difference is this one collects men’s used underwear and put them up for sale at the neigborhood pasar malam!

  17. ‘But since the Police has not yet released a copy of the Police Report, Anwar need not give his detailed alibi.” Salak

    Alibi is a legal defense. Why should Anwar want to reveal his evidence out of court? So the police could then change the particulars on their report which they have yet to disclose and Anwar has yet to see??

  18. That’s familar! There was a police case some years back in Pulau Tikus in Penang when a school teacher in his fifties was caught climbing onto his neighbour’s balcony to collect the ladies’ underwear. Four working ladies lived in the house next door.

    The shocking thing was this guy was not suspended from duty although his activities was splashed across all msm but was allowed to continue to work till he retired!

    Real scarry, weirdos everywhere, even educated ones – teachers! I am troubled by the thought our children’s safety under the care of such characters!

  19. “…when a school teacher in his fifties was caught climbing onto his neighbour’s balcony to collect the ladies’ underwear. ” Jong

    Could be he was giving the ladies a hint that it is time they change their old underwear – from torn and cheap ones to something more like Victoria Secrets??

    I just checked the Penal Code to see if I could find an offence under “stealing of ladies underwear” but I couldn’t find any. It cannot come under ‘theft’ since there is no intention to deprive their owners permanently of their property – only to borrow for some unspecified use and then return. That is not theft!

  20. Maybe he was curious, for his age had not seen thongs before eh?

    Btw, it was in the newspapers that when police raided his house, he had a drawerful of ladies’ underwear. Hmmm, I was wonder what was the wife thinking, that the hubby borrowed it from next door for her? Both were teachers(I think), now retired!!

  21. Don’t underestimate that need to smell scent or snoop! You might come up with something sizzling!

    But why did the Police “real” hound dogs (barking dogs, one that salaks) die? It was recently reported somewhere that their dogs died?
    Too much work for the dogs?

    Recently Malaysia Police bought some Proton Wajas (in RMmillions) for patrols to facilitate efficiency they said. I was down at my grocer’s shop the other day and saw 3 Police Proton Wajas parked behind shophouses, one was the at rear of a Tax Agency Office. What the heck are these people doing???

    As for the dead dogs hounds it must be a mystery.

    Maybe the poor animals mati because of Musa Hassan’s kentut! :(

  22. “….one was the at rear of a Tax Agency Office.”

    Oh! So you have Tax Agency offices in Malaysia now??

    Over here, the tax season is welcome by ordinary folks! Because it is pay back time! They are reminded of their power over a ‘government for the people, by the people’ – though may not be ‘of the people’ but rather some people.

  23. Bean,

    Maybe I’m talking different systems.

    I think it’s a service that helps people or propriety bizness work back on their profits! :)

    It’s very flexible in Malaysia. I used to have a good old Chinese friend in electrical goods business in Kuching. When I asked him how bizness was, he used to say at times, in certain years, he DIDN’T WANT to make too much profit. And I would smile back knowingly! :)

  24. Well, obviously your friend the electrician, thought ‘window dressing’ is all about dressing up mannequins in Victoria Secrets ladies’ underwear.

  25. Mr.Bean,

    Ya, ya. In Sarawak self-employed people and small biznesses don’t employ accounts workers or won’t appreciate the need to. And the Revenue Officials are another kind. But where big timber co’s are concerned, professional accountants and auditors have merciless exposures. So we bocor most of the way. Including of course, Parliament! :)

    BUT, that does not cover absolutely all and sundry! Mind!

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