Police Misuse of DNA information
Dear Friends, Fellow Bloggers and Associates,
In today’s front page of the New Straits Times (July 18, 2008), you will find a “can’t miss” picture of Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar, Home Affairs Minister, next to its headline ” WHAT IS HE ARAID OF?” and a sub-heading containing his comment with regard to Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim that “If he ’s searching for the truth, he can get it very easily. Just give a blood sample for DNA tests…Under our laws, we cannot force, we cannot force a person to give a blood sample.” It is not that easy, Mr. Minister.
On the point of “our laws”, he is correct, but we know that this UMNO-led Barisan Nasional government has the habit of amending laws to suit its purposes. If they have done it to the constitution on so many occasions that I have lost count, they can do the same with other laws as well; but this time, fortunately, it is not going to be a “stroll in the park” with a very strong opposition in our 12th Parliament, thanks to the maturity and wisdom of Malaysian voters.
Like me, he is not qualified to comment on DNA testing and profiling. We both are not experts on this subject; he is a lawyer and I am an economist. In order to clear the air, and with the help of an overseas colleague and friend, I was able to obtain some information concerning the experience of the United Kingdom (below) on DNA evidence and profiling. I have read it and I hope the Malaysian Home Affairs Minister himself and his advisors will visit my blog and read it too.
There are unacceptable risks, given the fact that the recent attempts to embarass and humiliate Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim are politically motivated. The PKR Advisor is correct to exercise his right of refusal to give his blood sample for DNA testing and profiling.
Do you trust this government and the Royal Malaysian Police to do the right thing? Well, I do not. Experience has shown me that in our country, the authorities always do the most expedient thing which is to please and protect
their political masters. They are not professionals in the true sense of the word. People in power are apparently above the law while the rest of us are treated as sacrificial lambs. Thus, the Rule of Law here remains a chimera. We are not equal under Malaysian Law.
I do not have to write a dissertation on this subject since the incumbent Foreign Minister,Dato Seri Utama Dr. Rais Yatim, had done many years ago and published a book in 1995 titled, Freedom Under Executive Power in Malaysia: A Study of Executive Supremacy ( ISBN 983-99984-0-4). —Din Merican
SOURCE: http://www.exploredna.co.uk/police-misuse-dna.html
While DNA evidence and profiling have provided significant benefits to our criminal justice system, there is also concern regarding police misuse of DNA information. When the Home Office confirmed that it had more than five hundred thousand profiles obtained by DNA testing and analysis for false or incorrectly documented names, there was a great deal of public concern as well as issues raised by organisations focused on protecting civil rights and freedoms. The concerns, however, highlight what is a complicated debate regarding the use of DNA and the problems around unethical police access to the DNA database. There is also the fear that misuse could affect the integrity of prisons and probation for people whose profiles are held in the database.
Use of a Suspect’s DNA
A suspect can be arrested for a number of offences and can have his or her DNA held regardless of whether they are charged with a criminal offence or if they are acquitted. With the British DNA database being the largest such database in the world, the potential for misuse has notably worrisome implications. Recent statistics from the Home Office showed that more than five hundred thousand profiles had wrongly spelled or incorrectly entered names in the database. The scope of these errors is certainly enormous and has prompted calls for better care and accountability in the handling of sensitive information.
Clearly, it is important to use DNA for solving crime and safeguarding the public by identifying criminals who are at risk of offending again. At the same time, there must be a balance to ensure that innocent people do not have their information misused. The DNA database needs to be regarded as a credible source of information – one that is not overwhelmed with errors and misuse.
Quality of Information
One problem surrounding the DNA database is its accuracy in terms of identifying a person. Errors that have been noted include the use of someone else’s name for DNA evidence or the names of people who do not even exist. While it may seem surprising that this occurs, you have to also consider that in the United Kingdom (UK), DNA evidence is taken for minor crimes such as public nuisance issues. This means that evidence clarity is compromised because it is not even a case of a person being arrested and formally charged.
Addressing Concerns Around Police Misuse of DNA
With plans to expand the database to include people who commit offences such as littering or not paying railway fares, there is increased concern over the police misuse of DNA, particularly given the issues already raised around inaccuracies. If we also look at the enormous number of children in the database, there is still more concern to ensure that police do not misuse DNA profiles of a group that requires safeguarding and protection.
One claim from a human rights group is that it is already troubling enough that the database holds profiles from a large number of children, innocent individuals and ethnic minorities. Adding in the inaccurate information and misuse only compounds what is clearly a major concern that needs to be tackled. Responses from the government and criminal justice system representatives have argued that the system is not perfect but that it has saved lives and resulted in criminal convictions, which emphasises its importance in providing the public with protection and a successful criminal justice system.
The need for a DNA database seems clear if we look at the importance of the database for identifying criminals and protecting the public. However, this kind of public protection must also be performed carefully to ensure that information is held safely and that it is ethically used and accurate.
Loading...
So far the police appears to be acting within the law. Anwar was called to give his statement under the more serious S. 111 CPC (as opposed to a mere witness statement under S. 112). He refused. A warrant of arrest was issued. He was arrested. He was released on police bail on condition that he must report on a predetermined date for more questioning. He has not been charged.
He was asked to provide blood for the purpose of serological typing and DNA analysis. He has not seen the police report made against him nor provided with a copy. The police report is a public document and the accused or his lawyer is entitled to a copy. He is entitled at this point of time, therefore, to refuse to provide blood samples. No adverse reference could be drawn.
The police while acting within the law, is ahead of themselves.
____________
Mr Bean,
You call what the balaclava clad men did to Anwar at I.05 pm on July 16, 2008 as he was returning from Putrajaya after giving evidence to the Anti-Corruption Agency to prepare for another appointment, this time with the KL Police Contingent Headquarters at 2.00 p.m. as “acting within the law”. I called “a dastardly act of piracy”. But then, I am not from the AG’s Chambers or Alberto Gonzales of the Bush Administration, nor am I a lawyer.
Why do you think the Police did not give him or his lawyers a copy of Saiful’s report? If they have it, then Anwar is entitled to get a copy. Is the Police acting according to the law? Common sense tells me that they are not. —Din Merican
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 3:57 am
Concerns for the use and misuse of DNA samples of free citizens in certain jurisidictions are overshadowed by the wider concern over the violation of their constitutional rights. The U.S. is a good example.
In the U.K. the police has wide powers. Just like in Malaysia. The police does not need a search warrant to search your property and any evidence of another crime it may find can be used against you even though the search has nothing to do with it. Then there is the infamous S. 27 of the Evidence Act which allows illegaly obtained evidence to be used.
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 4:06 am
All the police need to have in order to compel Anwar to provide his DNA samples is “reasonable cause” and a court order.
How difficult is that??
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 4:18 am
From LimKitSiang Blog, this will make you guys roll in laughter with stomach cramps, wonder what Mr Bean and Din Merican has to say, read on…..
“undergrad2 Says:
Today at 08: 39.34 (3 hours ago)
“DNA? What DNA? You mean Saiful didn’t wash his anus after he was sodomized and went straight to the DPM’s office so they can collect evidence? You call this conspiracy?” dawsheng.
It is called “The Ass Conspiracy” – the title of a new movie by Hollywood starring John McCain and George Bush. ”
___________
Dawsheng and Undergrad2 are experts on this subject. I have no comment; hopefully, Mr. Bean has the answer since he is very conversant with the intracacies of the law and Republican politics. Sorry, Jong, I can’t help you here.—Din Merican
Jong - July 18, 2008 at 4:24 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, I think the Deputy Prime Minister Najib told reporters that Saiful went to his residence the night before his police report was made, to seek his(Najib’s) advice on how to tackle Anwar Ibrahim who had earlier sodomised him.
The visit to DPM’s office was much earlier, to “apply for scholarship”. No mention of sodomy.
_________
Jong, ask Najib for the answer. No mention of Altantuya either, maybe because Rosmah Chot was around. Dia kecut.—Din Merican
Jong - July 18, 2008 at 4:43 am
First and foremost nobody is above the law. Just because he is HRH Dato’ Seri Anwar means you can deny the power of the police. Saying that too, whatever DSAI has quoted about the “credibility” or “I dont trust the police” saga might just be his planted perceptions he is putting in the minds of his supporters and the general public. He knows he is a public figure, and might as well use the opportunity to do so.
_________
Valiant effort on your part in defence of the government, Mr Pipitart. Police power is one characteristic of a fascist state. We are not yet one but if the public does not react against arbitrary power like setting up roadblocks for no rhyme or reason, the Police will be more aggressive and will be one soon.So far the media has been muzzled. Soon civil society leaders will be threatened and then cowed.—Din Merican
pipitart - July 18, 2008 at 4:58 am
Sorry, pipitart, I REALLY DON’T TRUST THE POLICE. And I don’t need DSAI to tell me that – I already have decided for myself, based on what I see, read and experienced for myself. We are all not the fools that you assume we are.
barry - July 18, 2008 at 5:02 am
Pipitart, you must be really ‘naive’. What if it is your wife or mother in the same situation as DSAI ? Buka mata sedikit dan lihat keadaan sekeliling kita. Salam
ariffin abdullah - July 18, 2008 at 6:22 am
Jong, it is all ‘make up’ or ‘ fabricated’ story. The plot and story line always change from time to time.
Regards
ariffin abdullah - July 18, 2008 at 6:26 am
It is valid concern highlighted by the rights groups here, and the scale of this issue is a global one too. But that brings this sodomy charge absolutely nowhere. Maybe DNA evidence can be admitted to court, and the other side can call on experts to refute the accuracy / reliability of the evidence, along with other evidence – alibi, witnesses, circumstantial etc..and let the court come to a judgment that everyone should abide by. We are talking about the same system who acquitted Anwar based on inadmissible evidence from Azizan last time around. In any case, to refuse the suggestion that he can have his own doctor present, and pushing aside the suggestion of independent forensic investigation team…how will this ever end then?
AL - July 18, 2008 at 6:27 am
DSAI, I smell the “Deep Throat” modus operandi ala UMNO in the making. Regards.
ariffin abdullah - July 18, 2008 at 6:47 am
This is one complicated drama.
We don’t really know who’s the victim. Everybody has their own theory on what really happened.
But Anwar is really using every opportunity he has to capture rakyat’s attention.
And all the huh-hah that he’s been making is getting more and more ridiculous by now.
ReeWoo - July 18, 2008 at 6:49 am
the longer Anwar continues about not giving his dna sample then the longer this saga keeps going on and on.
if we no longer trust the police,the law, and the court then who should we put our trust on to ensure stability?.the politicians?i doubt of that.
answers please!
_______________
jonah jones, we will be in a state of anarchy. Certainly not UMNO-BN pols.—Din Merican
jonah jones - July 18, 2008 at 6:50 am
the UK report is merely concerns regarding the DNA profiling. How can you ppl above ve so blind? Having concerns doesn’t mean the risks are actually happening. This is just another googled article to strengthen a flimsy excuse of the guilt ridden Anwar.
Shame on you all for not thinking logically but rather emotionally.
defensor - July 18, 2008 at 6:53 am
defensor,
So, your logic tells you that AI is guilty of sodomy, without even bothering to understand his concerns about police interference? Looks like you have already judged AI guilty of sodomy – precisely what the monkeys had intended in the first place.
Scieintifically, DNA is very very reliable, but in the hands of unscrupulous or dubious characters, God knows what can happen.
barry - July 18, 2008 at 7:22 am
pipitart,
about this dna thing,it’s Anwar’s right not to give his dna sample for examination.fine.but the police can take a court order for that.
the issue is why anwar is so reluctant to hand over his dna sample even to his own private doctor?.what is it that he really wants?
his dna sample had been used for his sodomy case 10 years ago and obviously he escaped from the allegation.
so,why not once more?
little diane - July 18, 2008 at 7:34 am
The Home Mini ster & PDRM watched too much CSI series!
eeyaw - July 18, 2008 at 7:43 am
Well, sorry but my family is not involved in politics nor any high profile cases like DSAI does. As a citizen isnt it our most basic responsibility to abide to laws and rules? If not for that who is responsible for the peace and order in the country? I am not on the police side when it comes to this, because I know even there are bad apples in the force too. But I’m talking in general here.
pipitart - July 18, 2008 at 7:45 am
pipitart,
“bad apples in the force”—-> nice one there,pipitart.unfortunately,that’s true.but i hope this time they gonna conduct the investigation more transparently and not to blew it up just like they did when they arrested Anwar earlier than they should have.
little diane - July 18, 2008 at 8:13 am
Yep, the BIG bad apples at the top in the police force know that Anwar Ibrahim is a force to be reckoned with and a threat to their political masters
fall from power.
Why do you think that they need 20 fully geared ski-masked UTK personnel to arrest a 61 year old unarmed politician?
Does he deserve to be treated like a
hardcore terrorist on the run? If their intent is not to make Anwar look bad, to humiliate him, then what is it?
How come they did not give similar treatment to the two highly-trained UTK guys who are now the “accused” in murder of Mongolian Altantuya Shaariibuu?
Jong - July 18, 2008 at 9:56 am
“Is the Police acting according to the law? Common sense tells me that they are not. —Din Merican
I do not expect you to be objective in your reading of my statement.
If you were to be stopped for a traffic infraction by a SWAT team, is that a violation of the law? You can criticize the police for the way they choose to execute the law. You can accuse them for wasting taxpayers’ money or causing a traffic jam or worse causing an innocent bystander to have a heart attack. The CPC does not mandate the use of common sense by the police – although one would expect them to do so, and failure to do so is not a crime under the country’s Penal Code. Not the last time I read it. I could be wrong.
“Why do you think the Police did not give him or his lawyers a copy of Saiful’s report?” Din Merican
Because they are too embarrassed by its contents?
It is a public document and the government is legally required to provide a copy to the party who is alleged to have committed a crime or his legal representative. The CPC does not, however, outline the manner in which a copy is to be given nor its timing – although since a copy is readily available, one copy should have been provided within reasonable time. Again you can criticize the police for the manner they execute their duties as officers entrusted with maintaining law and order. The police cannot legally refuse a copy to him or his legal representative. Their failure thus far to provide him with a copy raises questions as to their motive which could be an issue during the trial. But for it to be a crime i.e. failure to make copies of public documents available on demand, we would have to rely on the wisdom of our MPs as it would involve an amendment to the country’s Penal Code.
There is nothing common about common sense – apparently.
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 11:32 am
“Why do you think that they need 20 fully geared ski-masked UTK personnel to arrest a 61 year old unarmed politician? “ JONG
Why do they need men in ski masks or balaclava (armed with stun guns, tasers and stun batons) to execute a simple arrest of a saber rattling and drum beating old politician – a loving husband to a wife, a loving father to his children returning home for his Penang style nasi kandar?
So they could go skiing later on the French Alps during winter? For fear that this old man could turn into a Che Guevera?
The same reason why they need a squadron of Sukhoi jet fighters (nothing like dealing with a former superpower in dire need of trade), a French submarine or two (nobody trusts the French today except us), and frigates and corvettes and V-150 armored personnel carriers and scorpion tanks and surface-to-air missiles.
How else could the BN led government justify such massive spending on defense equipment.
How else could they hope to fund election campaigns – and at the same time pay millions to keep their MPs from crossing over to the opposition?
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 12:21 pm
“Does he deserve to be treated like a
hardcore terrorist on the run? If their intent is not to make Anwar look bad, to humiliate him, then what is it? “ JONG
Maybe they are trying to recruit him for the winter Olympics??
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Mr Bean,
Aren’t elements of malicious prosecution pregnant here?
In the case of deliberate miscompliance with a reasonable request, it may be substantiated as an attempt to actually subvert part of the total process in laws. Then there is, no matter, how small a part, dereliction of duty, which we generally accept as tidak apa but might be said to be incompetence, wilful negligence and an affront to the spirit of the law. don’t that matter?
I would agree with you we an need an “authority” to implement the laws but not to to taint the spirit of the law, not to nullify the very fundamental of what citizens abrogate to the system.
But of course the Bung of Kinabatangan will dismiss and stonewall the slightest attempt by putting on his eye-patch.
I cannot easily accept laws as insubordinating society, if there is the slightest valid protest, disagreement on the legitimacy of any act.
As we still understand it, the alleged victim of any prosecution is presumed innocent before sentencing.
Agreed, there should be no tyranny from the “authority” nor society at large jealous for self-preservation. Otherwise we’ll make bigger sticks to club each other.
Salak - July 18, 2008 at 1:15 pm
“Aren’t elements of malicious prosecution pregnant here?” salak
I think you meant ‘persecution’. No issue of malicous prosecution since he has yet to be charged.
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Salak,
Like all the other jurisdictions, we practice the adversarial system. It is not perfect but until we have a better system we are stuck with it.
The lodging of a police report by the victim is to start the process which will eventually culminate in a trial, conviction and sentencing of the guilty party. Anwar has not been provided with a copy of that public document. But the media reports and the statements from the police have put him on notice that a crime is said to have been committed by him. What is missing is the details.
He has been arrested and placed in police custody and he knows why. In Malaysia there is no requirement for the equivalent of the Miranda warning to be read out to the suspect who is being arrested. Nevertheless once arrested he has his common law right not to incriminate himself i.e. not to answer questions put to him by his interrogators especially in the absence of his attorney if it means incriminating himself. If he does then it becomes evidence in the trial later. Refusing to answer questions once he is placed under arrest is not suppressing evidence. The suspect under interrogation is merely exercising his constitutional right. He is under arrest, remember? He does not need to cooperate with the police. That is why in jurisdictions where a Miranda warning is mandatory, the police would delay arresting the suspect. No suspect has been named and you are just detained for questioning but even then you do not have to answer anything. You are free to go after the questioning. In these jurisdictions, any cooperation given to the police would be considered in any plea bargaining which may come later. But Malaysia does not practice plea bargaining.
The withdrawal of blood for serological typing for DNA analysis is an investigative tool. In the absence of a DNA statute which mandates the withdrawal of blood for that purpose, the police would need to get a court order.
I don’t understand why the fuss about the suppression of evidence. No evidence is being suppressed. The police needs to put their act together.
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Mr Bean, are you not responding to Undergrad2’s comment?
Kojak - July 18, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Only if you come clean about your gender.
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 3:04 pm
What’s the problem, just a baldie trying to be funny. Yeh, still having stomach cramps after reading what undergrad2’s comment!
Kojak - July 18, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Where’s Smiley? Oh there you are
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Go see me dance on the ’song for the weekend’ thread!
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 3:16 pm
They are trying to make Anwar Ibrahim look bad for his refusal to submit himself for DNA testing. It is his right not to agree to police’s request. Even the PM has joined in making baboon comments.
Jong - July 18, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Mr Bean,
Miranda looks sexy now, doesn’t she?
But this is regressive. This is as good as rumor mongering service the public is paying for. And this is a breach of contract. (?)
Have a kopi-o on me! And I’ll have one on you!
You should set-up a forum yourself on legal issues. There’s no money in legal aid, huh? It would be good training grounds for aspiring lawyers or even politician wannabes.
Thanks, Man!
Salak - July 18, 2008 at 4:28 pm
They say coffee beans are best when they are fresh.
Mr Bean - July 18, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Mr Bean,
The coffee beans are best after being excreted by the musang in Vietnam as long as not musang berjanggut or musa-ngp. Shrek good barista 10-4
shrek - July 18, 2008 at 9:46 pm
“Why do you think the Police did not give him or his lawyers a copy of Saiful’s report?” – Din Merican
I suspect, Saiful’s police report holds no water, no strong enough to ‘frame’ Anwar. With Mr C4’s advice, it has to be done properly done this time around for a good “frame up”. Very suspicious!
That’s why getting Anwar’s DNA (blood sample) is so important. Why do they need his blood samples, isn’t saliva good enough? Again, suspicious!
Jong - July 19, 2008 at 2:56 am
Talking about the whole drama and dilly dallying. From both sides, Anwar and whoever (Najib? etc?) They dont want to screw up like 10 years ago. Therefore they are really taking things very carefully and one step at a time. Could work in Anwar’s benefit or it may also backfire. Again it depend on whether Anwar indeed is innocent, then h should have nohing to worry about. As the Muslims say, whatever it is, you get what you deserve either in this life or the next
pipitart - July 19, 2008 at 5:00 am
Pipitart,
Buddhism too believes in “karma” – which is ’cause and effect’. Karma may be seen in our this very life, it’s called
“living karma”.
One of Malaysia’s great politicians is now experiencing his “living karma”. He is bitter, unable to accept his fall from grace. Even those who need to serve him at his pleasure during his ‘reign’ are now distancing themselves from him. They don’t want to have anything to do with him anymore while some of course are too polite to show their true feelings.
He may have his family all around him but deep down inside, he’s lonely, want for attention and rotting in bitterness.
So what’s the use of having so much duit haram and blatant abuse of power at the expense of many lives and families destroyed?
Jong - July 19, 2008 at 6:22 am
Jong,
His sidekick Soros, self-acknowleged failed philosopher but a rich prophet, must have given him ideas or so it goes. There’s more to Mahathir than meets the eye and one day someone’s gonna write out the whole thing. It should sell!
Mr Bean,
Coffee beans can keep and in proper storage up to a year. Grounded coffee, the powder, may be good for only a couple of days, unless airtight stored for a few more, not many more as each time you open the container coffee oils fly off. Well, you sniff most of it!
The reason is coffee goodness lies in its oils which of course can evaporate although its anti-oxidant character will retain. Yeah, coffee is as good as carrots or papayas which have plenty of oxidants.
We are supposed to get Arabica and Robusta in Malaysia. Coffee farming is not supported in Malaysia as prices are not good here—maybe about 80 to 100 cents US per kilo on export trade. You can get more Arabica beans from Indonesia. It doesn’t get to us as much because it’s probably snapped up by others. Much of it probably goes to Holland where its trade has matured over centuries.
I was very surprised back in mid 80’s when confronted by at least six flavours of coffee in an hotel in Rotterdam, much of it from Indonesia.
If you want a good cup, buy the beans. Grind enough for few cups. You actually start “drinking” coffee as you grind because when the oils escape on grinding you get “heady” already. The Beans we get locally are actually roasted with fat and sugar. You can roast your own without any, which should be the best way to get whatever roast roast you want—mild, medium or burnt!
All you need is some heavy pans!
This is only worth it, if you can find “green beans”. So go hunt. You won’t get any help from the Police!
This small Krups espresso costs only US$60!
http://www.krupsonlinestore.com/imagesEdp/p80417z.jpg
Salak - July 19, 2008 at 11:07 am
“Again it depend on whether Anwar indeed is innocent, then h should have nohing to worry about. As the Muslims say, whatever it is, you get what you deserve either in this life or the next” pipitart
Every rational fiber in my being tells me that Anwar is not a homosexual. Even if he were, it would be a stupid criminal to want to ‘visit the scene of his crime’ – especially when suspicion still hovers over him the first time he was alleged to have committed the crime. I may not know it for a fact but I refuse to believe and I refuse to be persuaded and I believe I speak for millions of Malaysians.
So let us put any residue of suspicion behind us and concentrate on the struggle to take back the government from a corrupt Islamo-fascist regime! Already the entire world community is laughing at us. Everywhere, somewhere in the world, every minute and every second somebody is getting sodomised. In the United States the fight to grant equal rights to lesbians and gays has seen increasing support from conservatives.
Salak,
I like all manner and shapes and sizes of beans – string beans, green beans, lima beans etc. But coffee beans? Well, they are the very essence of life. My favorite is the Sumatran coffee sold at Starbucks – very popular among coffee lovers. One coffee lover has this to say about the Sumatran coffee:
“Sumatra has a full, syrupy body with virtually no acidity – so the coffee’s intensity lingers in your mouth. The concentrated spicy, herbal notes and earthy aroma are the telltale signatures of this well-loved coffee.”
It is sad that Starbucks has had to close 600 of its outlets.
Coffee, anybody:)
Mr Bean - July 19, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Coffee flowers too have fantastic fragrance. I planted two plants in pots a couple of years ago. One mau mati sekarang! The other needs to be repotted. The last time they flowered was some 30 months ago. When they do, its heavenly!
Imagine a garden or coffee plantation with flowers in bloom…! They are supposed to bloom a greater part of the year.
In South America and the Carribean, they open up their estates to tourists. That’s good bizness, ain’t it?
We should make our money run in Vietnam! Huh!?
But with the mess BN have made of Malaysia, we might not even be able to get visas there to enjoy the “pedas” food there!
Salak - July 19, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I brought back a box of six 500gm pkts Starbucks coffee powder from Costco Seattle when it was on ’specials’ but was disappointed they just don’t taste the same when you drink it at their outlets.
Jong - July 19, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Btw Salak, I’ve never heard of coffee flowers, to produce coffee drink? Where can I find the plant, is it imported? hmmm interesting.
Jong - July 19, 2008 at 2:56 pm
I think he meant poppy flower!
Mr Bean - July 19, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Jong, Salak and Bean, ask Khir Toyo. His constituency produce good coffee beans and sold at Pasar Jawa in Klang. Good blend for Mocha Java in Malay Muka Jawa.
Shrek like Teh yang lebek baik. 10-4
shrek - July 19, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Urbanity has spoiled you Jong!
In order to produce coffee berries, the poor plant, tree must have flowers. The fragrance is supposed to wake up people like Bean to put on his wings and do the pollination (Polynesian?) dance.
You think Bean would do anything without an mutually benefical assurance? Then when Bean is through, the petals will wither to give birth to coffee beans that in their prime will tickle your nasal linings. I suppose shrek will drink the honey Bean will make.
Anyway, now you can picture why the aroma has to be preceded by heavenly scent! It’s great I tell you! Makes me feel bad about smoking!
Shrek can call our friend Khir and you can pick up the plants, lor! Or when things get rough drive out and hunt for them, just to keep your sanity.
Hehe! You won’t get no berries from from a potted coffee plant! If you can, and then tell me the secret, I’ll move Gunung Salak to your doorstep!
Salak - July 20, 2008 at 2:22 am
Cheyy cakap lah betul betul! You were confusing enough. How can you grow coffee plant in a pot?
Inducement of N12 P12 and K17 may work, but be content with mere flowers just for the aromatic scent. Why not brew your coffee then?
Jong - July 20, 2008 at 3:15 am
Salak
Shrek scared of Toyol, gives me the creeps and make my skin curl.
Shrek lives amongst orange groves and bee farm. Good honey direct from bees no additives, make Shrek Big Strong and Friendly
But for coffee Shrek likes kopi Tobruk or Toraja. Enaknya Mas 10-4
shrek - July 20, 2008 at 5:46 am
Shrek,
Stay away from honey. Ain’t too good for your health or everyone’s gonna take a bite off you. You’ll bleed from diabetes! Forget about stories of Arabian honey. They usually got kicked out out of the tent by their camels!
Jong,
You can grow anything in a pot! Haven’t you heard of those stunted trees in a pot? What the heck you call them?
Anyway, just don’t hooked on pot. My best brew won’t be of any use to a jonged pot!
Good day, People!
Salak - July 20, 2008 at 7:57 am
Thanks Salak
Shrek have diabetes and macular degeneration. So Shrek can’t see well and only take honey once a while with tea. What’s that about camel jockeys? 10-4
shrek - July 20, 2008 at 6:24 pm